Parking garages are becoming more popular in many jurisdictions. They are also getting quite crafty with the way they are building and disguising them. You know what they say, they just don’t build them like they used to…
Lieutenant Matt Rettmer from Castle Rock (CO) sent in these photos of a garage in his first due. The Photo above, from the A/B Corner, the structure looks like everything else on this street, a typical store front. But the photo below, a view from the B/C Corner, paints a different picture. The structure is actually a three story parking garage. Take a quick look back at the first picture, look in the windows, it’s a dead give-a-way.
A car fire in a parking garage is much different than any other type car fire. Fortunately parking garages are typically going to be build with Type I or Type II construction, so (under most circumstances) the building itself is not much of an issue.
Because car fires tend to be a compartmentalized fire, sprinkler systems (when provided) do little to actually extinguish the fire. This is why a truck company may be needed to “open things up†with the rotary saws. Take the time to discuss with the Engine Crew about the tactics for a car fire in a parking garage, it’s one of those situations we probably haven’t spent too much time thinking about.
We typically send a tactical alarm response (3 engines, 1 truck, safety and 1 B/C) to any report of a car fire in a parking structure (some of which are upwards of 6 stories, with no access for rigs within.) Some have standpipes and/or dry sprinklers. On upper levels we will utilize a hose pack off of the aerial or tower bucket as a “portable stand pipe”. Consider a larger response since there is often delays getting water on the fire, which will most likely result in multiple vehicles involved. Additionally, long stretches are often required to reach the vehicle(s). All of these and many other factors require a larger complement of manpower to mitigate. Also consider placing a PPV to pressurize corridors into the structures that the garge is attached to to limit smoke from entering the building. These structures require preplanning with actual scenario drills so that personnel have an understanding of the difficulties, time delays, and tactics involved for this not-so-run-of-the-mill car fire.
Great job to the brothers in Castle Rock on knowing their district.
Can the brother get up on the top leve, inside. Take some more pics and post them. Thanks.
Don’t forget about search just because this is “just a parking garage”! With all those cars on multiple levels a quick primary search and control of the entry points from the interior of the building are a must.
I will get over to the parking garage and get some photos from inside. The garage does have a standpipe system and sprinklers (just on the first level or in our case it is the “B” (basement) level. If you look close at the second picture you will see that the entrance puts you below grade from where this photo was taken.
Most of the hose stretchs will require atleast 200 feet of hose to make it across all points of the division and furthest standpipe connection. The first-due Officer has his/her hands full to locate the fire and determine what tactic to take.
The first due Engine is two blocks away so on a good day they will have some time to direct the next due units.
If you have any questions let me know or post to comments.
Matt,
Whats your standard assignment to a car fire in this structure? Still engine or a larger compliment?
My department has a very similar parking garage located at a medical center. The garage itself is a total of four levels. We also have a few issues to contend with that everyone may need to consider if confronted with a working fire in the garage.
As stated above, ours has a standpipe system in it and it is a dry pipe system. It also needs to be supplied by the FD, there is no fire pump for the system. In the event that we would use the standpipe system it would mean charging it with the apparatus pump. There are two hydrants near by for enough water to fill the system and sustain an adequate fire flow, however, the one closest to the FD connection is across the driveway that provides ambulance access to the ER entrance! Putting hose down effectively stops all ambulance traffic to the ER.
The other would mean laying approx. 500-600 feet of supply line.
None of our apparatus fit into the building.
The use of hose packs/bundles will require carying them in the same as a high rise operation.
Stair towers are on each end of the building on opposing corners which leads to long hose lay distances from the standpipe connections.
Our current pre-plan is that one of our quints respond 1st and position so the platform can reach the fire level and stretch the hose packs from the auxilliary discharges on the platform.
The engine would then lay out to the hydrant and supply the quint.
It sounds like a lot of work but we found that it is faster than trying to charge the standpipe system and hand carry hose packs up the stairs.
Don’t count out the possibility of a running fuel fire from failed fuel tanks dropping down to the level(s) below the fire floor.
These types of structures require high rise tactics, pre-planning and constant training to be successful in our operations.
It is always interesting to see how builders try to hide things from us, nice find. This will go along way towards safe and effective operations in these types of buildings.
Our response is 2 Engines and/or Quint. First-due is to begin high-rise tactics (hose bundle, tools, etc. and dress the standpipe). Second-due is to pump the FDC.
As Chief49 spoke we have some similar problems with access and staffing. We run 3-person engines and the first due will be quite busy on arrival. This garage is fairly full on weekdays and extremely full when we have special events.
As the Ladder/Quint Officer we recently ran a drill performing what Chief49 describes. We laddered the front and used the aerial and deployed a hose off the aerial discharge. It was fairly successful but took some practice. Certainly a nice back-up to our SOG.
We of course have some that feel it should be strictly run like a high-rise and others that will investigate then determine tactic based on findings….
Any other comments please post…
I think firefighters need to realize that once the aerial waterway is used as a standpipe the aerial device is committed and not movable. While this discussion is about a parking garage and rescue of a member at a window unlikely, at other buildings you could not move the tip to another location for rescue, or any other purpose. If you have only one aerial this may be a big deal.
Another option that would require drilling is to have a bundle on 2&1/2 or 3-inch that can be dropped to the ground so as not to commit the waterway. I have seen a department that stored a 100 ft section of 3 inch in the tower basket for this purpose.
When I worked at another department we proposed using an old city pick up truck to store hi-rise equipment and then being able to drive this truck into the center of a large indoor mall, into the parking garage or right up to the elevators which were in the parking garage by were a 300 ft walk from the curb into the lobby. It never went anywhere.
Matt, on a personal note my first time in Castle Rock was in 1973 when it was like the wild west and only one paved road went thru town. My aunt lives in Perry Park. I was just thru CR 2 yrs ago and cannot believe how it has grown. Before that I was there in 1986 and even then Denver seemed far off but not now.
While I agree with Drew about not tying up the aerial by using it as a standpipe (during a structure fire), it is a solid tactic to provide fast water under these circumstances. While the theory of the dropping a hose down the side of the building sounds good, in reality unless you are operating on the ground or second level, it becomes time consuming to deploy and set up. Also it has been my experience that securing the line and kinking present additional issues, as well as landscaping and building features. Speed is important due to the close proximity that vehicles are parked to prevent additional vehicle from becoming involved, creating a larger hazard. My job can make this run a “regular” and bring additional apparatus and personnel, but many small town fire departments do not have that luxury. Using the aerial in this manner allows them to accomplish extinguishment quickly with their limited resources and manpower.
Several years ago when I was a new engine Captain we responded to a reported car fire on the 3rd level of a 5 level parking garage. As we were responding, dispatch asked if I wanted the alarm upgraded to a full still (structure fire response) since it was in a building. Since we were a few blocks from the scene and it was “just a car fire” I told them to “hold off”. Arriving on side A I had nothing showing from the exterior.
As we got to the 3rd level I had a total of 4 cars on fire and quickly upgraded the alarm. It wasn’t until we were at that level that we saw any smoke or fire. I learned a lesson that day – that you can have a working car fire in an “open” parking deck and have nothing showing from the outside. I never make that mistake again.
ok guys here is a question for you all. do you use the dry stand pipe system for a fire on anything past the second floor or do you bring up the stand pipe packs and throw the hose down over the side of the building?? i ask because up here in the north east they will be a dry systems because of the cold weather. in that case if someone were to open one or more caps we could pump all day and not get water at the one we want. also it could take upwards of 5 min to fill the dry system. now if you bring your stand pipe packs with you and lower it down outside the building you get water right away. COMMENTS QUESTIONS ANY IDEAS??? AND HOW DOES EVERYONE ELSE DO IT
Drew…thanks for the comments.. I do agree with your comments and only practiced this as a back-up if the standpipe doesn’t work. Everyone that has posted has valid comments and I’m glad this has “sparked” such good converstation.
Rudy has an interesting comment and I can only hope that our Officers don’t “blow it off” as “just a car” fire…when the garage is full on a weekday or special event weekend…we will be fighting more than a single car fire.
DREW….next time you are coming through…get a hold of me before you come by and I will show you around.
Thanks again all for the comments…I love hearing and learning from you all.
Worcester, MA has opened two parking garages in the last few years that include commercial storefronts along the street. Not cosmetic ones like this case — actual occupancies. One was a nightclub complex for a few years.
Just something to keep in the back of your head as I expect to see that done more commonly in the future (“smart growth” and all that looking for mixed-occupancy neighborhoods)