Almost 7 years ago we featured a post titled Under, Over, or Not At All? discussing the pros and cons and the ins and outs of wearing a radio strap on the fireground. The post generated a great discussion with well over 100 comments. Many of our readers certainly have their preferences and some had great justifications. Recently, Fairfax County (VA) did an extensive study and report on the topic. Click here for the report. The report makes some pretty startling discoveries, and should be reviewed by everyone in the fire service, from the guys crawling down the halls, and to the Chiefs behind the desk.
The photo above shows the least ideal, but unfortunately the most common way to carry a radio, a coat integrated radio pocket. Signal loss, the actual closure of the pocket failing to keep the radio contained and exposing the radio to a greater level of thermal insult are all likely scenarios with this method of carry. The worst case scenario would be radio failure that could potentially lock up the tactical channel, having a negative impact to everyone of the fire ground.
Besides the obvious added entanglement hazard, carrying the radio on the exterior of a coat also exposes it to the negative conditions found on the fireground. The strap outside the coat also puts the radio at a higher risk for failure due to thermal and moisture issues.
Carrying the radio with a strap under the coat, but hanging low enough to have the antenna outside and away from the body (see photo below) is the most ideal and gives the user the best operational reliability.
So after reading the detailed report, has anyone have a change of heart? Is anyone going to start to carry the radio differently based on this report? Do any of your departments MANDATE a particular method of carry? We suggest printing the report and leaving it on the kitchen table for everyone to review and discuss. One of the most important findings in the report is that the failure of a single radio on the fireground could potentially put everyone else at risk by tying up the fireground tactical channel. A special thanks goes out to the Communication Section Of Fairfax County Fire for their commitment to this research and sharing of this report.
Do you have a link to the actual report?
Link is in the first paragraph.
Interesting report. However, the reason I still go with option #1 is when I have to run the speaker mic out the top of my turnout coat, it has a habit of opening up my collar and exposing my neck.
Here’s what I do…. I use one of the “Gearkeepers” with a pin. I pin the attachment to the middle of my coat collar (about where the collarbone would be) so the speaker mic hangs right next to my ear. My radio pocket is on the upper chest, centered. It keeps it out of my SCBA, and I always know where its at. Plus I don’t have to have it blaring and drown out conversation on the fireground.
5th line down – Click Here – for actual report
Thanks, I must’ve missed it on my tiny smartphone’s screen.
I don’t know that I’d count on a leather case (as pictured above) with that much of the radio exposed to protect the radio from heat.
Clicked submit too soon- my other thought in terms of signal degradation is that Fairfax uses an 800Mhz system. Anyone using a different band radio may have FAR different results in a similar test both in terms of signal loss and potential for channel lock.
I’m short so it the “optimal position” is what I’ve always wore, I am fascinated to hear the radio pocket was the worse through. Great read though
I wear mine under my coat this way if a call where jacket not needed I’m always putting it on the first.
Mine hangs low enough for antenna to hang out as well.
As for pulling it up out from neck the photo above is not what it looks like if done right.
I pull mine up and out by neck and let it hang I don’t attach it to anything and it never goes anywhere its always there if I need it. And all closures are closed.
But this is me.
The real question is why would you have firefighters inside an atmosphere so hot that it could be damaging to the radio. These radios are built to military specifications and are meant to handle some abuse. How is it that the radio in a radio strap outside of the turnout radio pocket is better at handling heat damage vs. the pocket which undergoes standard NFPA testing. Sounds like a bunch of union guys are getting together and trying to hand one over on the fire service again. Pretty soon they won’t even want to fight fire, because it could affect their ability to make more money.
On the last picture…the radio is still outside of the coat….still exposed to heat and water….I have used the radio pocket for over 20 years…and no issues…..in an urban and busy environment. The coat I currently have has good velcro…and a moisture barrier…..again…it always seems to work.
Read the report and its does a VERY good job of explaining the issues for each method of carrying the radio. Its not a matter of the radio but the speaker mic which causes alot of the radio failures and channel lockup issues.
And when you read the report, you will see that NIST performed the testing, not a “bunch of Union guys”. Try and keep your petty politics out of a conversation for “fireman” who actually do aggressive interior firefighting.
@BH Interesting observation on the radio system. We have the ability to perform similar testing using VHF, UHF, & 800mhz. We’ll try to get the tests done in the near future and will do a follow up post on it.
They should be using a Motorola radio and it also depends on the radio system they are on, these radios are made water resistance and durable and should be worn on the outside of the bunker jacket for best coverage.
well said TJ. this is a site for conversations about fighting fire, not to bitch about “union guys”. I have always used the radio pocket on my turnouts, but have been planning to buy a radio strap very soon. I agree that the radio strap outside the turnout coat is a big entanglement hazard
@ Mike
Bunch of Union guys.. Really that’s what you got out of this article???
I hate replying to these things and you just reminded me of why I don’t reply.
Mike if you look at the military standards that they meet the cord (the weakest link) is rated at 160 degrees. The mic cord is the issue the radio core generally functions after enormous heat insult but the cord fails all of the time. See the San Fran LODD report on Valerio and Perez. The RSM failed and the channel was jammed. Unless you protect the cord you are placing everyone on your firegrouns at risk. Please let me know if you want some more background on the subject, I would love to pass on what I have.
Jonah
emedtraining@gmail.com
I love how Fairfax published this report but their guys were running around Wilson Bridge Dr with their radios in the their radio pocket…..
Also, are you sure the radio pocket undergoes NFPA testing? I’m pretty sure that the pocket is not insulated to the same extent as the rest of the jacket and will do a poor job protecting the radio from extreme heat.
Radio strap inside. For sure.
All science aside, it’s obvious which way is right… just look at which pic the FF is happiest in.
Very happy to see VES covering this topic! I wrote a piece on the report this spring that generated allot of discussion. Even phone calls from the Fairfax Chief and others. The report goes against the department policy that was in place at that time. Fairfax now has a new Chief that will hopefully be looking at this issue. I also hope all reading make some adjustments to how they carry their radio. http://community.fireengineering.com/m/blogpost?id=1219672%3ABlogPost%3A577284
under the coat is ok …. until the I.C. decides to switch channels and you’re in an IDLH atmosphere…
Surprised no ne has considered the following option, as it combines the best of both worlds. I carry my radio in my right bunker pant pocket with the antenna sticking out. Then I run the mic on the inside of my coat and let it hang out. This works for me as it protects the radio, allows for good signal and frees up the front of my coat from clutter.
This doesn’t look conducive to wearing an SCBA.
@PG Man they do that because their policy states that the radio must be carried in the radio pocket.
As the primary author of the report, I wanted to clarify a few things: First, this was an “internal” report from the Comm Section to the Fire Chief. Later, a similar report was done for a meeting with the IAFF. It was never intended to be leaked, nor was it intended to tell you, you, or you how to wear your radio. It was done with information specific to our radios, our radio system, our gear spec, our experiences with a survival program. Your radio, your radio system, your coat length, and your may be different, so it would be ludicrous to say just because we found this to be true about our experiences, it will be so for you and your department.
Now, that aside, many of the things we found are principal based; meaning signal loss is science, radios falling out of pockets is not unique to us, and that exposed remote speaker mics (RSMs) tend to melt and when they do, they can short and lock a talkgroup (PGFD 57th Ave).
We have had a radio pocket policy for years and it was time to see if it was still valid. We actually fought with the Local and International on this issue, so please don’t confuse the intent. You likely have had good luck with a radio pocket and that’s great. No where in the report did it mention a 100% failure, though the percentages of bad things happening are very high. I would ask you to think about when was the last time you physically engaged in realistic crawling, roof venting, or went through a floor drop simulator with the radio in the pocket. If you had success, congrats you’re part of the 60%. We found a 38% loss rate in those challenging tasks; not standing in the front yard. That risk is 0%.
If you have the means to replicate, I encourage you to do so. I get calls all the time from engineers and FD asking for details and the procedures report drafted by the RCC Consultant that conducted the fire service radio signal loss test with Fairfax City Fire.
This is not about a stupid strap or wearing it under your coat. It’s about increasing the chances of you calling for help, if you God forbid you find yourself in a jamb.
On a good note, Motorola recognizes the risk of exposed RSMs and they have developed a prototype Xtreme Temperature Cable that the National Capital Region is testing. There is also a national testing agency looking at comparing melting vulnerability of RSMs. If it indeed works, it will be a huge step in the right direction; however, it wont solve signal loss or ejection, nor will it solve cords getting snagged.
Additionally, a comment was made about the leather radio pouch. We agree, so we have been working with a company to make an IDLH leather pouch without cutouts to protect the radio. If you read the report, you will also see the results of coats burned in flashovers that are damaged at the shoulders, but not the pant pocket…. 2-ft makes a difference.
Information is power. If you don’t know why you’re doing what you’re doing, you’re a potential liability. It makes no difference to radio location, breaking windows, doing laps, pushing fire, or anything else.
Hope that helps. If you want more information, you can e-mail me at rexstrickland@gmail.com
I have always used a radio strap, one way or another. If I was coming from another call and had to put my coat on, it would go underneath. If I was just getting straight geared up, it went on over. After reading the Fairfax report, it goes underneath every time.
“It was never intended to be leaked”
Leaked? This is a public fire department, right? Nothing is secret.
Front chest radio pocket. No extra straps to get tangled up in.
Pro’s and Con’s to anything you will ever do. This was an outstanding article! Going to try a couple different things on my next shift!
I run my strap outside but its under my airpack. It all but covers the strap and yet to have anything catch on it.
Rex,
You have addressed isssues I have not even concidered. Thanks for the thorough approach to a common problem.
If a turnout coat is going to cause your radio to not get out over the channel,aube you need to consider a better radio. I’m no brick mason but last I checked brick and motar is a lot thicker than a turnout coat. The bottom line is wear it so your radio is protected. Most all radios have a mic that has the channels on them for easy changing of the talk groups. Don’t buy the cheapest mic either. You wear $2,000+ in turnout gear $5,000 air packs because they are made for this environment that we call house fires. So don’t wear a mic that is made for the trash man or local school crossing guard.
But what would Ricky Riley do?
Hey Rex,
Thanks for your hard work on that report, It’s already having an impact on the Left Coast. Radio ejection was considered part of the job until recently, and more of us have been buying straps with our own money.
After the first article on this I switched to the recommended method and love it. The funny thing is guys I work with have leather straps which they wear all the time until it’s a fire then they toss them to the side and place the radio in their coat pocket, lol. I dont get it.
As far as having to changes radio channels, we are lucky enough to have a version of motorola 800mhz radios that verbalize the channel you switch to. This helps so you dont have to count clicks or look at the radio to see what channel your on.
Good information here… I did some very similar testing about 5 years ago with my department’s communications equipment. We were using an outdated single channel VHF system for everything- dispatch, fireground ops, EMS, station alerting, etc.
I spent over a year doing research, talking to other departments and testing equipment before we spent nearly a million dollars on radio equipment.
Each company received new portable radios with speaker mics and straps for each riding position, each station got a new 800mhz base station and alert monitor, our dispatch office received new console equipment, rigs got new mobile radios and onboard vehicle repeaters.
We have transitioned to the HoosierSafe statewide 800mhz radio network which gave us 5 talkgroups for operations, one TG for emergency’s, and the ability to communicate with most anyone in the state for mutual aid. We retained our VHF channel for station alerting and paging and purchased new VHF equipment to replace the early 70’s equipment.
We went from each man carrying a small Motorola HT 1250 w/o speaker mics or straps (which I believed was not the preferred choice for a firefighters radio) to the Motorola XTS 2500’s w/ mics and straps.
I spent most of my time researching portable radios and how they interact with us as firefighters to make it as safe and reliable as possible, given the environments we operate in.
I agree, putting radios in pockets are not a good idea as the tests from Fairfax have shown. From my years on the job, I don’t know how many times my radio fell out of one of my pockets and I had to stop and search for it.
I began reading NIOSH lodd reports and noticed in nearly every report; communications was sited as contributing to the death in one fashion or another.
There is an entire section in the Charleston Sofa Super Store fire report that discusses communications, and how the Charleston FD culture used their radio equipment.
If you read the Charleston reports, it was common practice (as was at my dept.) to stick the radio in a pocket somewhere and was forgotten about until needed.
Based on what I was reading, and from experience I knew I wanted the mic up near the firefighters head so information could be more easily received, and transmitted. Making the mic easier to locate and use especially if needed to declare an emergency.
When I looked at the various mics from different manufacturers I noticed one thing that all but one had in common- they were not designed for a firefighter to use while wearing bulky gloves in my opinion.
The spec we decided on was a mic that had an antenna on the mic, (high and away from the body), emergency button and ptt button that was large enough to be depressed with a gloved hand, waterproof.
We found it very difficult and next to impossible to activate the EB on the Motorola radios themselves with gloves on because it is so small.
Surprising to me was Motorola did not make a mic that included all of the above.
Our communications vendor recommended a mic from Otto that was designed for firefighters which did include all of the features we were looking for.
We were very satisfied with these mics, however the weakest link in this chain is definitely the mic cable, as we have had some issues with that.
We worked with Jerry at “Radiotech†to design a case for our new XTS 2500’s that would nearly encapsulate the radio itself to protect it since it would be hanging lower than the firefighters coat which is described in the article.
We are now in the process of moving from an analog system to an “all digital format.†This brings on a whole new discussion…
My advice to everyone is to work with your equipment and get to know it.
Wear it the same way every time you put it on. Include the dispatchers in your drills and testing and make sure they know and understand your SOP’s and what’s happening on the fireground.
Get out and go in and around the buildings in your service area and test your portable transceivers so you will know where radio communications are weak or non-existent.
Work with city leaders and property owners about installing bi-directional amplifiers (BDA’s) in larger commercial/industrial buildings. Some areas of the U.S. now require these by law or city ordinance to enhance communications inside for public safety.
RF (radio frequency) is a crazy thing… and its not guaranteed everywhere. There are just some places, situations, and buildings we are not going to have good radio service in no matter what we do. Its just the nature of RF.
Matt Bowyer
Battalion Chief
New Albany FD
I used to primarily carry the radio in the front pocket due to “ease of use”. Recently I’ve started to just leave it in my radio strap and wear it under my jacket. My issue though is this. I’m 6’4″ so there will be no way with my current strap I can wear it low enough to have the antenna hang outside my jacket. It is a big adjustment for me to get used to as it sometimes binds on my SCBA waist harness (again due to my height). But, all in all I’m trying to make the change over!
Every single person out there is wearing a helmet. Why not integrate the primary radio into the helmet? Its not like radios need to be as physically big as they used to be.
I am not in the same field of work as most of you, but this technology exists today.
Looking ahead I predict that the helmet will end up redesigned to provide more protection, while holding much more comms gear, sending and receiving both radio and visual data… Google glass HUD overlays anyone?
You know me…Im an avid follower. How is it that there are numerous posts about building construction, tactics, safety, truck work, etc, and this post about where wackers wear their radios generates a bigger discussion that any post this year?
DMAN72 – Because it’s important that you don’t lose your radio when donkey kicking a door in or pulling meters in buildings with VPS, making a window during VEIS, throwing a 35, or cutting a roof vent!
Definitely needs more testing on multiple types of radio systems in both simplex and duplex/half-duplex modes, P25 digital and analog. All of these things have an immense effect on RF propagation. Talking from the basement of a single family home on a simplex analog channel will give far different results than if one is talking on a 700/800 P25 “Talkgroup” on a system such as the ones that states are installing all over the place. Please don’t let this article be the end-all, be-all discussion. Test, test and test some more. Personally, I’ve found that the strap is extremely uncomfortable. Once I put on my truck belt and SCBA those straps will cause the pouch to pinch and flip out almost horizontal. Oh yeah. And I’m 6’5″ too. It just doesn’t work for me.
your pictures & comments do not show &/or address being used with an air pack on
pics 1 & 2 could be use able for exterior use
pics 3 & 4 would give me some conserns in conjunction with a pack
Haha. Good point, Rex! I never thought of that.
The Umbrella dept of my volunteer dept. Requires that their paid staff only have a radio in the chest pocket of a coat during fire ops. They state that a strap under or over a coat “makes it too difficult to activate a mayday if it is worn in a strap”. I swear I am not making this up.
Since we are volunteers we do not have to comply with this SOP. All of our members wear the radio in the strap under the coat with mic out of the collar. I should also note that the paid staff is able to use radio straps while on EMS calls LOL.
@6’4″ Chris – A lot of guys in our area were also looking for custom length straps. Contact Sage at Mill City Leather Works (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mill-City-Leather-Works/225368977584049). He is on the job and does good work. He will make a strap with or without adjustment buckles, mic clips, or any other options, so your radio will hang at the exact length you specify.
As an added benefit, you can also have your strap embossed with your favorite VES.com catchphrase or the screen name you use to impart your fire expertise anonymously so no one will want to use your strap when you’re off duty!
This report definietly raised a lot of questions for me along with providing a few answers. Anyone know of a report that includes RSM mounted antenna being used? Seems like that would help with the signal loss at least a little. According to the report distance from the body and height from the ground are the largest impedences so an RSM mounted antenna seems like the way to go. That would help with getting the antenna vertical as well. I dunno about you but I usually stop crawling and get upright on my knees when transmitting.
I see how undercoat would protect the cord… except the part that sticks out from under your coat at the top so… if nothing else i’ll definielty be sure to stuff my cord in my chest pocket from now on =)
Rex, do you know if Motorolla is the only company developing that snazy new cord? We roll Kenwoods but even if an independant company makes a tougher cord i’d be interested.
Seems like a great many inferrences were pulled from the leather pouch providing some kind of unmeasured thermal and moisture protection. Anyone know of a report where the difference was actually quantified in comparison to a pouch?
I personally have only experienced radio ejection once (during a FF survival class where “forces unknown” caused my radio to fly free of my pocket) in which case I used my RSM cord like a retention leash and reeled my radio back in with ease but I suppose it couldn’t hurt to think about a high heat resistant buckle to ensure pocket integrity… or something more trick. Seems like the best solution there is not to open the pocket once you are set-up and buddy checked but I suppose some department’s policies may impact that. We step off the rig on our tac channel and don’t switch off unless we are operating around(figuritively) a mayday which keeps the channel.
The report discusses the need to reach the volume knob to prevent squelching each other (the quick answer is “hey man, put your hand over your speaker”) and needing to switch channels during a mayday (I thought everyone not experiencing a mayday switched to minimize duress of the firefighter who was jammed up, at least that is what we do) and I was curious if it is that much easier to reach and operate buttons of a radio slung in a strap?
Great topic and great input. Thanks to Rex for filling in some blanks. No one wants to end up a mute on the fireground.
Great article! We wear ours under our coats, works well, remains reliable and efficient, and is required.
As for the anti-union idiot, we actually do a lot of interior firefighting here in Charleston, SC. I’m the Union VP, and find your comment disrespectful and unnecessary for what this helpful article is about. This is a great site for those of us who actually do the job and want to learn from each other, not put another Brother down.
TJ said it best, . “Try and keep your petty politics out of a conversation for “fireman†who actually do aggressive interior firefighting”!
Stay Low
Mike D: An antenna mounted RSM happened to be a solution for our police officers when we migrated to the 800mHz system in early 2000. There are drawbacks: waterproof and cord lengths if you use a community radio & RSM. The cords on those do not coil.
The proximity of the antenna to the body is the issue. While height can play into improving reception, one completely counters the other. A radio on the ground is better than a radio against the body.
One of the interesting outcomes from the City of Fairfax Signal Loss test was that they also tested a shoulder mounted option that some departments use. You would think it would perform well above any of the other option: Radio pocket, strap over the coat, strap under the coat – radio covered, strap under the coat – radio exposed & angled. The exposed radio performed best, mainly due to where it falls behind the buttocks and angles out away from the body. When you crawl, and you have your SCBA belt on, it pivots the radio.
The IDLH Leather pouch with PBI that we’re working on with a manufacturer has not been tested yet, but it is a goal. Coupled with a 2′ height difference, I surmise that it would out perform the single layer PBI radio pocket in a side-by-side test.
Right now, I only know of the Motorola Xtreme Temperature Cable. I can tell you that NFPA 1802 is working hard to develop a standard on Fire Service Portable Radios; which may include standards on the RSM. Kenwood participates on the technical committee. Interestingly enough, an engineer that “may” represent Kenwood came to the same conclusion as an immediate stop gap safety measure until a formal NFPA standard can be adopted…
The ejection issue is not new, but it does happen. From reports I get (outside of the survival program observations) it happens when FFs are heavily engaged in various physically demanding tasks. Cutting a roof vent, zero-visibility search, RIT…. While you may or may not go to a lot of fires, I think we can admit that the hard-core tasks are few and far between. Hence the seemingly low occurrences.
The channel changing issue is due to our emergency procedures. If you cannot get out on the tactical channel, you have three options: Go to either far end of the dial (Alpha or Papa) and that will get you to a dispatcher. We also have a simplex talk-around dedicated safety channel (Oscar) which is independently monitored by command staff on a third mobile radio. Simply plans B & C. Our system only allows for one radio to key up at a time; which was a huge improvement from when units could step on each other.
I find it MUCH easier to navigate the channel and volume knobs. My hand naturally rests there and it is a one handed operation.
We didn’t invent this stuff, but I have to admit that prior to working on this issue, I gave it very little thought. I wore a strap over the coat and never had an issue. Today, with the issues with cords melting and compromising entire fire-grounds, I cannot condone anything that exposes the cord. See San Fran, Boston, PG, Fairfax…. The list goes on.
Just like the fire dynamics and science backing what many of us believed for years, the three big issues (Exposed Cords, Ejection, Signal Loss) made us realize that the pocket was placed there for convenience, not science and that it is actually contributing factor to several LODD and Close Calls.
Like anything in the fire service, change is hard. While we never intended our report to get out, I’m glad it has helped some people consider the safety factors and make changes to how they operate.
I think I left out a “3” in my e-mail in the previous post, but if you want some of the supporting docs, you can email me at rexstrickland3@gmail.com .
For the super tall jakes, BoxAlarmLeather.com makes Standard, XL, and XXL straps, which are all high quality Amish leather. You can also use the “strap keepers” to lengthen your strap if it is a community riding position strap. We have outfitted FF’s from 4’10” to 6’5″. We even had a 4-YO physically challenged child that we outfitted with an old radio and strap, fire gear and it looked like it was perfectly made for him… He wore it all day and never complained.
I hate the radio straps because eveyone always removes the radio belt clip so it fits their strap and over time it breaks the plastic on the battery or gets lost somewhere never to be found when I damn need it.
NEEERDS
At regular carry length, my strap does not hang low enough below my coat to be able to manipulate the volume and channel controls. To correct this, I detach the rear strap hook from the radio case and connect it to my anti-sway strap, in turn making the overall strap longer and lowering the radio low enough to clear the bottom of my jacket. This is a real quick way to lengthen the strap without having to adjust the buckle.
Stupid straps. Just put the radio in your chest pocket so you can get to the thing and then it wont get tangled on everything when I have to drag your a*s out.
Nice tip. Interesting to know that the cord is apparently the weak link. I like the idea of flipping the coat behind the radio…Now I won’t have to struggle to switch channels or have my radio purse hang down by my knee.
First let me start off by saying that it is a sad day when a radio post receives so much attention.
Now let me explain, after scrolling through and reading a majority of posts, it stems from a bunch of individuals not reading the report. Plain and simple. Read the report.
I have read the report and it makes sense. I have been in the Fire Service for twenty years and have been using a radio strap for twelve. I have always carried the radio strap under my coat with the mic coming out under my collar and the radio on the outside (and yes I have seen a couple of fires in my twenty years). Never have I had any thermal damage to the RSM cable. With the report, that goes into as much detail as one would want to fully understand how important radio placement is, just as wearing all of your PPE is with an 800mhz system.
So please read attachments or the complete article prior to commenting on something…Just saying.
Good posts equal the opportunity to learn something from everyone out there!
I wear my radio strap under my coat, and have never had an issue. There was a video posted a few years ago showing a 24 year guy who at time of the video held the position of Lt. On his dept. The purpose of the video was not championing for a radio strap, but to show how easy it can be to become confused and not be able to locate your radio mic if/when we get disoriented. By wearing my strap under my coat i always know exactly where my mic is. It is directly under my chin and will never move for any reason other then a total catastrophe. Another reason i wear it that way is it solves any entanglement issues. With nothing at all outside my coat (radio strap, or even the radio itself in the pocket) it cant get caught up.
Just a point of clarification, I believe that the NIST study compares radios in the radio pocket Vs. an unprotected radio. Meaning that the unprotected radio except for the small amounts of leather covering the bottom portion of the radio is not going to do much to protect your radio from thermal damage when compared to the radio in the radio pocket that the bunker gear manufactures so kindly included on your coat.
Ian, the report went in depth with radio placement comparing chest carry and hip carry, they were testing temperature differences between the two different heights and found less thermal damage at the hip area
i’m sitting here reading everybody’s discussion’s and the thing that upset’s me the most are you few that come on here and bash those of us that are in the position you know in the deepest parts of your volunteer hearts that you want. you dont know anyone of us and your bashing us for being a union guy and for what? again the posts and the articles are supposed to be about radio communications and ideas of how to get around the problems that ((WE ALL)) face not sertain one’s of us. i started out as a volunteer, then went to a part-time and now full-time fire fighter paramedic who also happened to get into the haz-mat side of things as well as a fire instructor, so i do have a great passion for the job!!!! let me tell you however that there is nothing and i do mean nothing worse in this world than being stranded and or trapped in a structure or a hazmat suit without the inability to contact the outside world and ask for help!!!!!! or in my two cases scream for help!!!!! i will never wear my radio on the outside of my turnout gear again for as long as i am in the fire service because no matter how much of a badass you are or you think you are something is gonna get you when you least expect it!!!! i had a very small pipe that got into the leather strap and between my arm pit when i was attempting to move wires in zero visability and my partner came up and bent the pipe thinking that it was just debris in the house which sealed the dealed. the cord on the lepell mic melted but thank god only got longer and never failed. one of the senior guys came in with the battery powered saw zalls and cut the pipe after calling a mayday. all because of some crack head stealing copper pipes and wires. the haz mat incident was just training thank god but still was un-nerving enough that we threw all the radios out and got new ones within the next month. but the throat mics failed and i ran out of air in my suit and had no way to communicate with my partner. my duty radio is a kenwood it stays in my leather holster with strap and goes under my coat. the haz mat ones i dont even remember the names of those but they were a japanese name. so back to where or how or what or in you should protect the radio you are given it is your life line to the outside.
stay safe brothers and sisters and yes i mean volunteer brothers and sisters also
A good friend of mine was injured in the fire on 57th street in PG County, Md. Anyone who has read the report knows about the issues associated with their radios after “the blowtorch”. I wore my radio strap under my coat before the incident, and will continue to do so. The radios hold up fairly well, the mic CORD is the problem. Everyone is focused on the radio itself when that’s not really biggest problem. And the radio pocket is only shell material, which doesn’t offer the same level of thermal protection as the rest of the coat. To each his own, but I’ll be protecting that cord as much as I can.
For obvious reasons, I’ve always encouraged the use of radio straps. I’ve also always encouraged wearing them under the coat, mostly to reduce risk of entanglement. So it’s good to see some real data on radio straps being safer when worn correctly. And I’m SO incredibly happy that someone has compiled the data on what is the best and safest way to wear one. Thank you for sharing this!
Ferg
We’re on VHF Narrow Band at the moment. There are talks about going to either UHF (to standardize with PD) or 800 as Harris and Moto Crossband radios are mad expensive (at least at the moment)
I carry my HT1000 on my radio strap while in duty uniform for when i’m the apparatus operator or on say an EMS run. If i’m bunkered up i’ll have it in the radio pocket. This has me thinking and I might try and strap under the coat sometime.
Our only radio issues are with the limitations of VHF. We run a voter repeater system. We have some hills in our district and some significantly large structures. We also cover I-90 outside of our district/county, so as we travel east or west, comms can get bad. We train to flip our radio to the non-repater channel if we can’t be heard and then the more powerful truck radio or radios that can hear can relay….
Great read none the less
The radio I have chosen is water resistant up to 3 feet of water for 30 minutes. I was able to purchase a throat mic with ear bud. I carry my radio in the enter pocket of my coat with throat mic attached. The transmit button attaches to my suspenders and hood covers mic and bud. This has worked really well in my case. The throat mic gives clear audio but my big pro to this was the ear bud to keep up with extior fire conditions and any evacuation orders given. The cost was less than 400 dollars for all.
Completly under the coat. Having the radio and antenna exposed is still an entanglement hazard. No reason for it to be exposed. Takes just as much time to lift your coat a few inches to change the channel if needed.
never once thought of wearing a radio strap until i read this article. i now wear the radio strap under my gear and am trying to spread the word
recently, at an EMS conference of all places, I saw and tried a new radio strap invented by a lieutenant at a nearby department which addresses these issues exclusively. The lieutenant hopes to have it on the market in January and is designed to be integrated under the gear and features Molle attachments. Very cool design.
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that if conditions are so bad that the radio won’t survive, how do they even think for one second that a human being, in the same PPE as the radio, would survive.
Two suggestions. Let the scientists figure out the radio placement issue and have firefighters spend more time training on not to go where it’s so bad that wires (and people) will burn.
It is a flawed study in another way. It only examines one radio, one set of gear and one strap. A truly scientific study would be looking for optimal radio placement without looking at what we are already doing. We might find out that optimal placement is between the bottle and back with an anetena integrated into the helmet!?
Let’s let science lead us to a true conclusion instead of finding science that leads the conclusion we are looking for.
Radio straps are great for around the station or when doing inspections. They have no place in a fire unless you properly train on mic placement. I a truckie capt and can tell you that communication when searching and vent operations has been negatively impacted by use of these straps. When in SCBA the mic should be brought up to your throat, you will be amazed at the difference in clarity. If you can bring the mic to your throat proximal to your voice box then great for you but, many cannot do this in the heat of battle all geared up. Please practice clear communication no matter which way you decide to carry. Thanks for reading and be safe!!
This method means everyone would have to have their own radio and strap in order to have it underneath your coat before getting on the apparatus with your gear on our department SOG say all members must have full gear on before they get in the apparatus
Any radio at any time with or without a RSM. We need to address programming. Weed to program radios rite. Time Out Timer (TOT) should be programmed into the radio. You can set the amount of time a radio can be keyed up our radios is 30 sec with a 5 sec warning beep to tell you it’s going to drop you off.
Our volunteer department SOGs stipulate radios worn in leather straps under coat. The mics run under collar to gear keepers attached near the neck/head. Our mics also have the dials to change channels on the same bank. with this new report perhaps new manufacturing may have antennas coming from the bottom of the radio which extend beyond the coat.
We implemented this radio carrying policy with the holsters a few years ago. We have several issues with the bunker coat and or SCBA coming in contact with the radio and changing channels. Just curious if anyone else out there has done this and is experiencing the same thing. For me a channel selector knob being changed in an IDLH environment with out the user knowing is just as much of a safety issue and what was indicated in this report. Thanks!
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