Captain Mike Meddles from Soledad (CA) sent in these pictures that he and his crew found on a medical run. When they asked the family how old the child sleeping on the bed was, one of the family members asked which one and motioned toward the closet. Look close.
It is a little tight in there, but there is a child sleeping in her bed in the closet. The subject of searching closets on a primary is always an interesting discussion. This just shows what really can happen.
Thats scarry…..Maybe the footboard of the bed in the doorway might tip you off, but in the dark it sure would be easy to miss, Great work guys
Yes, closets get swept on a primary. So does under bed and the space behind every door.
It’s something to think about while doing a primary and secondary.
my question is what kind of parents put a kid in closet for a bed?
Yes something to keep in mind during a search, but during a primary it may not be realistic. I work for a very wealthy city and most homes are extremely large, so to stay close to our 4 min. benchmark I may have to skip things like a closet. I have to cover the most likely areas for victims like around doors, beds, couchs, windows, etc. During our secondary i’ll hit the closets.
It might be that your 4 minute benchmark needs to be adjusted. If your goal is to search ANY size occupancy in 4 minutes, there are some that will take more and some less. How about you make your goal searching any occupancy as quickly and efficiently as possible? It’s less quantitative and more qualitative. In this case, a quick poke into the closet during a search would reveal a bed below clothes. Feeling a bed in a closet would definitely get your attention.
Closets are important!! Look at the houston fire from the other day. They found two bodies in the closet of the bedroom. The older couple was trying to escape the heat. Dont miss this area that will realisticly take you less than 20 Sec to search!
Im not saying to skip them on every fire, but some of these homes in my area have two stroy walk-in closets that are bigger then alot of homes which would take alot more than 20 seconds to search! I could spend the better part of the search in a closet. So in these larger homes I would like to spend more time in areas where victims are more commonly found. It’s just something everyone needs to size-up before we start a search.
Good find though!
Maybe it’s just my dept.(or maybe just me!), but in zero viz, which seems to be the majority of the fires I’m going to, I open every door I come to and feel around…. Tile floor, toilet, sink…great!, I’m in a bathroom, but still need to check it out quickly but thoroughly. Carpet, bed, dresser…great!, I’m in a bedroom, but still need to be QUICK AND THOROUGH. 4 minute timeline? Is that for a room? a floor? a house? Wealthy neighborhood/McMansion? Poor neighborhood multi family dwelling? Who keeps track of the time and do you just stop searching and leave when the “buzzer” goes off? We have to search it all. Thats the job. Youre always going to miss something, especially in an understaffed, over taxed department. Great find by the Soledad, Ca. brothers. Great topic to get everyone thinking about “their way” of doing the search…
People especially children panic and hide in closets and bathrooms .Something to think about
Truck61, by any chance do you work for winter park? Just a guess, judging by your screen name,and the way you describe the city you work in. Just a thought, given that the closets in these huge wealthy homes are so big, wouldn’t that make them MORE likely to have people in them due to how big they are? People trying to escape the heat could see this as a big huge area to get away from heat/smoke. Just a thought
Chris, thats a good point. Also under smoke conditions there is a chance we would think we were in another room. Thats why I said just something to think about, I’m not against or for searching closets, I’m just pointing out things my deptartment has to think about. Every fire we have to adapt to.
As for the 4 min. benchmark, it’s just a goal my department sets because thats when brain damage starts to occur without O2. Obviously in lager homes this benchmark is just about imposible, but its a goal we aim for.
Great catch on a med run…this is a great example of constant pre plans. We come across alot of low income families more often then not and the scariest thing is the clutter. Homes in such a condition that a walk way 10 to 12 inches wide is the only thing you have to work with. The little girl in the closet fits right into that same low income situation. Two or more families living in the same house will fit beds any were. I have even seen regular attic spaces converted into bedrooms. Thanks for the photos.
A buddy of mine searched a closet and found the homeowner. Unconscious but later revived.
How can you skip a closet on a primary? Bed or no bed, it is a well known fact that kids will hide in closets when they get scared. Why do you check under a bed? Not because that’s where the kid sleeps, but because that’s where they might be hiding.
Stay safe.
Keep this in mind the next time someone says: That room is too hot. No one can survive in there. But if the closet door is closed that super safe chief might just be wrong!
I do not have closets in my first due area… BUT if I did. I would search them on the primary search.
I rather sleep on the kitchen counter then downgrade where my kid sleeps. ive known people who have bought sofa beds so their kids had a room. i would search a closet on a primary considering what other items i may have felt in that room i.e. – crib, childs bed, toys, toy box, etc.
Let me throw in my 2 cents since my other comment disappeared 🙂 I have two very conflicting opinions on this matter. 1. I’d love to see statistics on how many kids they find in closets, because I think it’s another firefighter myth. YES I KNOW IT HAPPENS OCCASIONALLY. But Im only interested in facts. 2. Ok, Ok, check the closet, but how many people are gonna waste time crawling in around and over things in a closet to find someone? Not many and if you say you do, you’re full of shit. Most are just gonna run and hand or a hook inside the door quickly and move on. You gotta go with the numbers, folks. Most victims are found in obvious areas, not closets. And don’t f@#king argue with me, I KNOW THERE’S EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE. If you wanna universal rule book, go be a cop.
Wow!
Ali Jahanfard
OK, I know this is always a hot button issue on this site and I am quite surprised it to you so long to pipe up DMAN72. He is absolutely right that most victims are found in obvious areas, i.e. bedrooms (on or next to the bed), behind the front door, in the hallway on their way out. This is likely the case for most of us. I wouldn’t expect Truck61 to find too many people in a 2 story walk-in closet. It all comes down to what is normal for the people who live in your area.
If you have a high immigrant population you might realistically expect to find people living in the closet. I have seen the void space under a concrete porch turned into a bedroom accessed by what used to be a small window. That same 2 story row house housed 31 people. That is not quite what you expect to find in the average home. There are always exceptions to the rule and it shouldn’t be, always do this and never do that, it’s about what people are doing in your first due. If you go into on home in a neighborhood and see something quirky, you will probably see it somewhere else. What is normal for you and I won’t be normal for a family from another country. If it’s common for that family it might be common for all of the families in that neighborhood.
This is why it is important for all of us to know what is going on outside of our firehouse. Doing area drills and building inspections and opening our eyes on EMS runs or routine alarms is going to help us be better firemen. Yeah my first due isn’t your first due and vice-versa. I don’t care. If you don’t search closets, pantries, porches, attics or where ever, that’s on you and your crew. We are here to save lives first and foremost. If your victim makes it easy for you that’s great. If they don’t, and you miss them, that’s a shitty day.
The thing about this website is that it is a great learning tool. I pick up little things almost every time there is a new article posted. Take this article for instance; I have never used a benchmark like Truck61. That is a good concept, probably not practical for everyone but a good teaching point or a good argument for more firehouses or higher staffing. Ultimately completing a primary search as fast a possible will save the most lives. Whether you decide to check closets on the primary is something you and you company should discuss. That is where it comes down to your first due and what works for you. I check closets and all outward swinging doors if I have time because I know people live in places like that. Even if they don’t sleep or hide there normally, suffocating smoke and high heat will make you do strange things to try and survive. Stay safe and keep the knowledge coming.
Thanks for putting it that way Tim. Thats what I was trying to say, theres no one way of doing things in the fire service. Our job is FULL of “grey areas” and “make up as you go” situations.
Totally agree with both you guys. On that note, also, what constitutes “obvious areas” to one, may not to another.
While in the FDNY closets were usually not searched on the primary. The usual sweep under beds, bath tub, behind front door, bedroom doors etc. Different story if a parent or neighbor is in the street yelling there is a kid sleeping in the closet.
Now as Safety Chief in a small town in the NC mountains and looking at the pics, I would think twice about the closets on the primary. Small houses, trailers, single wide, high immigrant population, a lot of kids in the family?? Maybe a look with the thermal or feel in the small closets. In da Bronx we found a baby in a chest of draws pulled out. Not uncommon.
On the primary “Courage is fear holding on a minute longer” General George Patton
OVM 1075
Do it, it shouldn’t take to much time.
In an absolute zero visibilty environment, without the use of a TIC you could not with all certainty rule out that the room is a closest so I say search it as you would any room based upon the circumstances at the moment. Just be able to back up to the family, the public, and most of all yourself why you didn’t search the closet, not finding the little victim who otherwise might have been saved with a 10-15 second search.
I saw this once and have it hanging in my office, Firefighting: Is a science of vague assumption based upon debatable figures developed from inconclusive observations performed with equipment of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and of questionable mentaility.
Be safe!
Without question, the closets, under and on top of beds, toy chests in some instances, in between mattresses (yes, I’ve witnessed an infant found in this space, left by a parent, with the intent to protect them), you name it!! If it’s in the room, it’s getting searched on the primary on our truck!
Just finished inspections in a complex with 1008 units. I found 42 apts. with beds in the closets. We made them all be removed. Once again, check the closets during your search.
We just had a call today for a noxious odor in the apartment. Ended up being a BS call, but upon investigating we found what looked to be a closet (hung double sliding door)off of the living room by the entrance. It ended up being a nursery w/ a crib and the older kid looked to be no more than 2yo and an infant in a stroller doubling as a crib. To make it worse in one of the main bedrooms was a single door that led into it(opposite side of nursery. So you may think its a closet but hey you never know. Be safe.
This may be slightly off topic but a lesson nonetheless… my personal hero, Captain Craig Hollar of GFD rolled onto a scene, single family, single story woodframe… mom and dad are in the front yard in complete hysterics, dads hands are dripping flesh because their 8yr old was still inside. his bedroom is on the C/D corner. Cpt. Hollar grabs a roof ladder and runs to the window allready dressed in full scba. throws the ladder and before his shoulders passed the sill the little boy saw him and freaked, terrified, he turned and darted out the door to the firery hallway… Hollar elbowed the window and went headfirst ripping his gear to shreds on the remaining glass in the sash. vent. enter. search. he got to the door and had to decide… left or right. he chose right and went to the parents bedroom and did a thorough search, no way the boy went left towards the fire. He did a second search of the room, nothing. intense smoke and heat in the hallway had him on the floor, fire was now pulling to the window he vented,catching the boys room on fire, and nearly cut him off; the boys room began to flashover seconds after he bailed.
Had he went left…
During overhaul they found the boy had shut himself in the bathroom and hid in the tub, his favorite hide and seek spot. he had succombed to CO and perished unburned. No fault to Cpt. Hollar, he didn’t know there was a bathroom there, just a lesson learned on a bad day. Do what you can, risk a lot to save a lot, and search thoroughly.
Stay sharp and G-d bless,
Nick