Here’s another brilliant building addition that we recently came across. This was found at the rear of a commercial strip mall style building. Apparently they added an exit for a second floor mezzanine. When they did, they placed one of the columns that support the egress stair right in front of the rear exit door for the main level of the occupancy. This makes the door impossible to open. There is only a one or two inch gap between the door and the column. Two options come to mind on how to open his door (if we absolutely had to) unfortunately both of which remove the ability to control the door after the force. One idea is to cut the hinges and hope there is enough space between the column and door to force it open from the hinge side. The other would be to make a vertical cut the full height of the door, on the left (hinge side) of the column. This would allow the remaining small section of door on the left to hinge open and the remaining right side to just fall out of the way. It’s another less than ideal situation that we may eventually find ourselves in, and need to be able to think outside the box.
24 thoughts on “Column Placement”
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Curious, is the door still visible from the inside or has it been built over?
That is a good question, FitSsikS. It appears to me that they probably just abandoned it all together. If you look inside there’s probably a big shelving unit or something in front of where the door should be.
I have seen this before, not as severe but close. Get the torch, the saw will take too long and not get through the side that is against the building.
WTF! Where do people come up with this stuff and think it’s OK! Job security I guess.
Where is Fire Prevention Bureau. We would call them and have the owner fix the problem (If the first floor door is in service) But if we encountered this on a run I might take a saw to the first floor door down the center or at the hinges, it would still be an obstruction but, it would still be accessible, and you wouldn’t compromise anyone using the stairs.
I KNOW! AAAAND, THERES A F@#KING PALLET IN FRONT OF IT!! JUST KIDDING. SERIOUSLY THOUGH. ID PROBABLY JUST CUT THE COLUMN. THE STEPS ARE PROBABLY BOLTED TO THE BUILDING ANYWAY.I WOULDNT BREAKOUT THE PICNIC BASKET UNDERNEATH IT, BUT IN A PINCH. IM WITH FitSsikS THOUGH, I’LL BET THERE IS NOT ACCESS FROM THE INSIDE. P.S. WE USED THE PPF AGAIN LAST NIGHT!
I would hope that this has been forwarded to Prevention/Inspections/Fire Marshal. Next is to investigate if the interior has been blocked. If so, have the building owner stencil “DOOR BLOCKED ON INTERIOR” on the outside of the door. When RIT sees this they can MOVE ON! Problem solved.
Now, if the door is accessible or visible on the interior, the solution is to have the column moved before there is an incident.
It appears that the door knob/handle has been removed. I know that doesn’t necessarily mean that the door isn’t being used, but maybe the owner/operator thought “no knob no use” worked as good as a sign?? Just a thought.
Nice to see that Prevention rushed over and met with the owners who promptly resolved the issue.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/funepics/columndoornomore-1.jpg
Ok, it’s been a while. 😉
Spoon,
They could also put it in Brail like they do on drive up MAC machines.
Spoon….problem solved by a sign and RIT moving on? What about the guys in the interior looking to get out and find the only door at the rear on the main level is blocked (either interior or exterior). I’m assuming that when the owner/tenant blocked this exit door….he didn’t go have another one built.
“No knob no use”?…the door still has signs of carriage bolts (or what appear to be from the pic)and indentations at the same height where there would typically be some type of panic hardware on the interior.
To force the door you’ll probably (as mentioned earlier) have to cut the hinges….then as an added bonus….deal with whatever crap the tenant/landlord has had his local machine shop make. ..OR….grab the chains, secure one to each of the two right posts supporting the stairway blocking the door and hook the other end up to one of the trucks….and away ya go!
WOW!
NICE!!! here’s your sign…
Again, if the door is blocked or otherwise inaccessible from the interior, is it really viable as an egress? We could waste a lot of time and resources on this problem when a better solution is available. Preplan this so when an event happens, we already know that this is not a viable access point. This is one of those ‘tunnel vision’ problems. If we are not able to make progress with this opening, MOVE ON! Find a better way to get our brothers out.
As I stated before, if the door is visible from the interior, get the column moved before an event occurs. If the door is not visible or accessible during normal conditions, finding it under fire conditions would be next to impossible. When is the last time you crawled into high-stack storage racks full of product to find an egress?
My comment about having the door painted with “DOOR BLOCKED” should be a reminder to the crews of the pre-planning that has taken place of this structure. Mark doors like this on the pre-plan sheets, educate crews that may respond to this structure that this is not a viable egress point. This should serve to make the fireground operations more efficient and effective.
Can’t really tell the construction of the wall material; wether it is slab construction or stucco over cinder block. If it is cinder block, I’d probably try a wall breach before attacking that door. You would be surprised how quickly a few motivated firefighters and some hand tools can get through a masonry wall.
This is the kind of stuff that keeps us doing what we do. Gotta love it!
OK. Can we get something up here to argue about now?
LOL,, YEA what DMAN said!!! I just got promoted to Lt. I need a dumb a^s to yell at LOL..
Fire Inspection/Prevention should require the owner to add an additional coloumn on the hinge side of the door (clear of opening path) and to move the existing one to the handle side (again clear of the door path). This way it will ADD to the support of the stairway. And if nothing else, this will aid in an additional egress/ingress for fire personnel, as well as increased safety!!!
I might be inclined to double wrap the wire rope around the entire stairway and remove it from the building for the owner.
To cut it, someone will have to stand on something, unless you’re Clyde Fraser or Wilt Chamberlain, to make the top cut. anytime you stand on something, you risk to chance of falling and with a running Partner Saw, etc the outcome won’t be pretty.
The best suggestion and it’s been made already, cut the hinges. There are now tools out there to do a very quick tap in the door and then put the door out of the frame.
Afterward, contact your jurisdiction’s building department and have them write up a building code violation. This is no joke. If there is a door then it is a means of egress. Lest we forget “The Station” nightclub fire in Rhode Island.
I’m at a loss here, I really am.
If you notice on the “repaired” wall on the later photo you will notice that the lower metal trim of the door is still visible. The door is still there and is likely only just covered over with a paper sign on the inside (if they didn’t remove the door then why assume they would do the right thing on the inside).
Quite often the occupants of such premises are up to no good!
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/funepics/VESHQ.jpg
nice code enforcement dept