KARE 11 News in Minneapolis caught some amazing footage of two brothers doing a head first ladder bail-out. Click here for the story. It sounds like they were the inside truck crew, and experienced rapidly deteriorating conditions. At first glance, it may appear that the second guy out doesn’t have an airpack, but if you look close, he has his mask on and the pack appears to be slung to his right side. These videos demonstrate how TRAINING SAVES LIVES!
Below are two videos from KARE 11 Minneapolis. The second video has an interview with Firefighter Cory Hermann (first guy out.) He describes the conditions, and his thoughts about the bail-out
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Gents,
Whoa! This video is a stupendous reason why we, as firefighters, need to train beyond our normal routine. Too many times, we see or hear about such sudden insidious moments that perpetually force us to these inevitable deeds of perilous daring. Well,I’d be remiss not to consider that their obvious training made a difference during their close encounter with the hands of time. Not to mention, the spontaneous reactions of their brethren with the ladder. Hey, what’s up with that mishap? Multi- story occupancies don’t require belated ladder deployment.
If we really ponder this issue personally and place ourselves in the moment. Do you tentatively think that you would react similar or differently? In reality…it’s virtually unpredictable to convey how we would react or act. I honestly couldn’t tell you what I would do; however, my subconscious actions should only revert to my training. That’s why we need to obtain the appropriate training for these unforeseen circumstances. Face it gang, we don’t work in a perfect and safe environment! So, why do we train in and for them?
As a rookie firefighter, I realized that it only took me one time to value the importance of survival training. As a distinguished brother once told me, “We constantly train to fight fire, but we seldom train or prepare to fight for our survivalâ€. Within his depiction, I interpreted his meaning by allowing myself to really perceive the training traits of our profession. I concluded that there are two types of firefighters; those who believe that such mishaps won’t happen to them or their organization and those who rationalize with the possibly that it could happen to them or their agency.
So, what do the type “B†character of firefighters do – TRAIN themselves for what can go wrong rather than for what will go right! Basically, we know how to fight fire and run EMS calls. But, do we really know how to prepare ourselves to survive when things go wrong?
I venture to say, that most firefighters don’t train in this capacity. Why? The type “A†character of firemen prevails.
I know that Firefighter Survival training has to complete with all the other required training facets bestowed upon us, but why must the precedence finish with the infamous “rear storage closet approach†amongst the others? Characteristically, we only think about it when something happens close to home or makes the nation news. Have we no apparent cognizance? Hey, this teeming forte of knowledge ostensibly takes the lead of discomfiture in my innocuous opinion! Shouldn’t we reconsider this ominous reality and begin to recognize the importance of survival training?
Well, I tend to stand amongst those who profess the importance of their lives and strive for another specialty – overcoming adversity!
Be proactive! Go out and get the necessary training that others tend to dismiss! Or lead the way within your organization and provide the constant, consistent survival training! Subsequently, in situations like these…it’s all that one may require or need!
Be safe out there brethren!
Darrell
Gents,
After further review on this video, I wanted to elucidate and retract my statement regarding the ladder mishap. They actually did have a ladder on that side of the building. It was placed adjacent to the narrow window that the brothers bailed from. Great work guys! And I am glad to see that our brethren in Minneapolis are still here today.
Take care and be safe.
Darrell
Has anyone seen the “Ventmaster”… We miss you brother!
Does anyone have the lucky to be alive story? Such as this with the bailout. sure would be nice to hear of these stories, becouse they happen and very often no one has pics or vids of them.
GREAT VIDEO! Shows the importance of Training! BTW Whats the civilian doing? watering his flowers?
We showed the video the other day while conducting a ground ladders course and it made a huge impression as to why liberal and proactive laddering of the building is so critical. How many times has every department ‘dodged a bullet’ and not had the same scenario play out? I think that most firefighters have an academic understanding of the importance of laddering a building, but this video really relays a practical understanding. The difference between a MAYDAY and a cylinder change can often be (and often is) the proactive and accurate placement of a ground ladder. We just don’t hear about it because the emergency event doesn’t happen when a member can simply climb down to safety and then get back to work.
Not every firehouse (or department) has a ladder company apparatus responding immediately, if at all. The fire (or other incident) doesn’t care – non-truck members need to be at least as well versed in ladderwork and other basic truck functions as those of us on the truck – they shouldn’t condition themselves to wait around until we get there. The engine needs to know how to force in, search, ladder and vent. The situation isn’t going to pause itself for our convenience. Geography, positioning, wires, other obstructions and response times can all degrade a truck company’s ability to operate with their aerial device. We’ve had ground ladders for our entire history and aerial devices for a relatively short time. Let’s start putting the (ground) LADDER back in LADDER COMPANY.
Very good point Roof! In my department we have 18 companies and only one of those is an aerial which is stationed at the far most corner of the county! If it does not happen in thier first or second due they are not going to be there in a timely manner. Every company must know “truck work”!
Here is another bone to chew on…Only having certain companies designated as RIT or FAST. More often than not they will be on scene much to late to have an effect on any MAYDAY situation that God forbid could come up. Every company must know RIT tactics and functions! Just something to think about.
Stay Safe and Train Hard!
This video not only shows the importance of “Saving Our Own” training, but also shows the need for proactive RIT teams. I have had many serious discussions about the need for a RIT team to be proactive by placing ladders in windows and making the fireground more firefighter friendly. My adversaries always argue that a RIT team should be standing at the entry point waiting to go in and help in a Mayday situation. They argue that by forcing doors and throwing ladders that this activity will tire the RIT crew. My counterpoint is that if you can make the fireground more safe so that someone can bail out of a window then you are eliminating the problem of having to go in and rescue a downed firefighter. Some will argue that proactive RIT teams would be “freelancing”. I totally disagree and believe that with proper training no one is freelancing.
I love this site !!! With great dicussion like this we all benefit. All have good points. RIT, Truck work,& etc. it’s all part of the job, all on our crews should know it .
In regards to RIT, take a moment and think about how many of the RIT related tasks are displaced truck work to begin with. For whatever reason, some ladder companies are no longer able to (or are used to) perform a number of their traditional functions…ie, proactive and liberal laddering of the building, providing more than just one entry point, etc. Many of us find ourselves in situations where truck work has been tasked off to someone else – RIT. RIT functions are absolutely essential, but could we A) make ourselves safer and more effective and B) free up RIT members to be a little more ‘rapid’ in deployments since they won’t be winded from doing truck work to ‘prepare the building’ for RIT?
Squadguy – my department currently has the majority of dedicated RIT equipment located on our heavy rescue company. On a Working Fire or multiple alarm, the fourth-due engine company arriving at the incident is assigned to gather the equipment, report to the CP and get to work performing a size-up, supplemental laddering, etc. Though there is some specialty RIT equipment on this unit, a heads-up engine crew can gather what they need from the other companies if the rescue isn’t available, or won’t be arriving in the opening stages of the incident. The punchline remains the same – the incident won’t wait. Part of being good at our chosen trade is the ability to recognize the challenge(s) and overcome them with what we have at hand or what we can immediately get our hands on.
Be safe.
In our department we have been trying to have every company arriving at a working fire (who is not advancing a hose line) bring a ladder and throw it up against the buiding making thier best guess as to where to out it. The thought is that a ladder against the building can be moved over to a window in need much quicker than going and getting one off the vehicle. If the closest rig’s ladder was already used then the walk/run to the next ladder is even farther. Also, if your crew is sent to the second or third floor, why not bring a ladder, put it up and know where your second means of egress is located (even if it is not ideal, again it ist still closet than the ladder left on the vehicle).
Some pretty cool tricks on here! Great Job! Thanks for sharing. Stay safe!
Proactive RIT is just another term for “TRUCK WORK.” Why is an additional hoseline never talked about as a proactive RIT function? The same argument can be made to defend having your RIT stretch and operate an additional line as it is used to defend throwing ladders or cutting bars. Bottom line…if your RIT is doing truck work, you need more trucks.
With that said, I understand the context in which many people use the term “Proactive RIT.” The context of making it work to the best advantage with the manpower and resources we’re given.
You already said it V. June…..RIT is truck work and us truckies dont deal with handlines.
Howdy Fellas, Great website, time to throw my hat into the ring.
RIT Staffing-
Your Box Alarm has arrived at a working fire, your OVM’s on the truck(s) have done all the “Proactive RIT” tasks (ladders, bars, etc.) How many FF’s do you have, or think you should have, waiting in RIT staging (after doing your walk around) for a FF emergency to occur?
The best number would be 5
Ok, I’ll bite… Why do you say 5 is the “best” number?
Be safe Brothers.
There should be NO LESS then 6, but you can never go wrong with more or a second back-up team depending on staffing.
The RIT classes I’ve taken have had teams of 4, 1 for the RIT airbottle bag, 1 carrying the rope(s), 1 taking in tools or tool bag and 1 (usually officer) using the TIC. You and the dept just need to keep in mind that studies have shown most RIT scenarios of any great lenght will require multiple teams of 3-4 to get the job done, mostly due to running out of air.
The classes I have attended from an authority on the subject (Chief Tim Sendelbach) have suggested four personnel should be used for a RIT team. Multiple teams of four can be used, but the teams should be set up like mpolletta suggests. There is no possible way that small departments can assign six personnel to a RIT team. I feel that I have opened up a can of worms with this “Proactive RIT” subject. I understand that these tasks are nothing more than truck work, but not all departments have the advantage to have squads, multiple truck companies, etc. on our first due assignments. I just feel that instead of having four guys standing around on the front lawn as a RIT team waiting is not productive. Put those guys to work. Who wants to stand around and do nothing anyway?
A few thoughts on RIT: Practically speaking, I think most folks can agree that we need a minimum of four correctly trained, equipped and motivated members. The TEAR concept (Team Leader, Extrication, Air and Rope) seems pretty functional.
As to how many members we can possibly assign to this function, who says we can’t have six or ten or twelve?
Our perception of the task and how we do our job. A small department may not be able to immediately put six of their own troops in the RIT slot, but what about calling neighbors? If they can’t put six troops (or however many) into the slot, let’s call some more neighbors and start assigning tasks. The only limit on who we call and what we call them for is the limit we place ourselves.
I think that the fire service is reaching a point where we’re beginning to look at some of our long-standing practices and the root causes of some of the incidents we’re involved in that result in near misses, injuries and deaths. We definitely need more staffing to accomplish tasks. We can either ‘share each others pain’ in regards to not having enough members or we can figure out ways to get people to show up. If we can’t immediately increase our own staffing, we should probably take a hard look at sharing staffing with others. Given staffing levels in career, combination and call/volunteer departments, automatic aid realistically shouldn’t be something we look at as a ‘failure’ any more. We should get to know our neighbors and train with them to be on the same page before an incident.
One final thought – Most RIT principles and training are centered around removing ONE member in distress. Maybe we need to start looking at much larger teams – a realistic number of troops to assist a realistic number of members that may be in need of assistance. A multiple alarm incident should probably be serviced by a larger RIT contingent than an all hands or working fire.
Be safe.
that just shows everone that to much (junk) hanging on your gear can be a bad thang. nice job men
Is it just my eyes or did the second guy out that window not have an airpack?
There are some really good views and points to ponder concerning ladders and RIT. As a ladder man myself, here are a couple of my thoughts.
RIT is a 4 or 5 man job. Leading a crew of 6 or more guys in 0 visability, in the heat of moment would be nearly impossible. If your department can do it the more power to you. But I hope you have tested this under actual conditions and not in fake smoke at the fire house.
I feel that if more teams are needed they need to be seperate functioning teams under the same outside operational command. A support for this is that most firefigher fatalities in actual fires seem to come in 2 or more. Can a single RIT team rescue multiple people? Perhaps, depending on the emergency. Are they lost, trapped, out of air? Obviously, if they are trapped or out of air 1 team most likely will not be able to save 2 or more guys.
In Charlotte, our new pumpers are coming with dual ladder racks to assist in throwing longer ground ladders. The pumers are carrying 35’s or 40’s in addition to the normal compliment. Many of our apartments and multi-story occupancies do not have aerial device access and more ground ladders are needed. This also allows the pumpers to throw additional ladders as needed.
How many ladders to throw? This question is difficult to answer and a the situation dictates tactics. But I offer this. Always try to throw your longest ladder in multi-story buildings. I would hate to throw a 24 only to move it to the back of the house where there is a walk-out basement and now the 24 won’t reach the 2nd floor window! We have a lot of apratments that are 3 stories on the front, 4 to 5 on the rear! Granted knowing your territiory is crucial, but in a large department this takes a couple of years to get down.
Another advantage for the longer ladder is more narrow raise angle can be used. A longer “slope” is needed for bail outs, and the longer length will make it safer for the guys getting out.
One more thing. RIT is not Truck Work!! It is firefighter work! Every engine, ladder, squad and ambulance in your deparmtent should be trained, proficient and equipped to perform this function. If an engine is assigned RIT and they think they need a K-12, they go get a K-12. It kills me it hear departments say “The Rescue (or ladder) will be RIT when they get on scene”. We had a ladder company get trapped in a house when the roof collapsed just last week. Do you know who rescued them…THE ENGINE (Man I hate to say that!)Everone should be prepared to function as a rescuer to save our own.
Have a Happy Fourth! I’m off to celebrate!
What a great subject to start discussion on a topic with so many beliefs. Remember this whole forum started with intense training, paying off at an intense moment. When one doesn’t have time to think, he/she reacts, and reacts based on their subconscious thoughts or trained actions. But if it wasn’t for that ladder to slide down, regardless of how it got placed their, injury to our brothers would’ve been imminent. While often the very tasks of RIT is “truck work”, everyone must be well-rounded enough to perform the functions needed because IT IS firefighter work like quoted above. I agree with Charles Hillman on “Proactive” RIT and mpolletta on 4-man RIT assignments, but regardless of staffing, ride assignments, or the size of your intial general alarm response, the actions intially made by whoever in the first stages may very well prevent the MAYDAY being called, the RIT being needed, and someone not going home. Be Safe, Make it work for you, its the same job at every firehouse.
excellent videos. Shows we all need to train for the things we don’t do everyday because anytime we may need to use it. Its funny the civillian in shorts thinking he’s getting something done with his garden hose.