Tim Anderson from Philadelphia Engine 16 sent in these pictures of an interesting find. The first floor of the structure appears to be vacant, but the apartments above are probably still be occupied. The first floor is protected by three roll down gates. The two roll down gates on the sides are secured with the usual American Series 2000 Hockey Puck Locks, the center gate is secured with something a little different.
The traditional Series 2000 lock has been removed and the lock casing has been filled with cement. Instead of dealing with the locks, and what they may or may not be doing to secure the door, it seems like cutting the gate itself may be the best option.
Anyone think there might be a need to bring back Jet Axe?
The presence of cement in the gap between the door jam and the door gives me reason to suspect that the door is likely not in use and cutting it may be a waste of time. But seeing it also make me think the owners may have a few more surprises in store for us. If I need to get in I would try to find another way which is less likely to be so heavily fortified.
It would be nice to see what is just above the top of this picture. If there are windows above then they would likely be a faster way into the apartments. There is a house with a door to the left and there is a window on the second floor to the right. Either one is probably going to be a better entrance than forcing or cutting a possible door to nowhere.
I’ve encountered interesting obstacles during pre-plan and area ride throughs such as this. I’ve just asked the property owner if I could take a look and explained that it was NOT an inspection, but for safety purposes that I wanted to see before an actual emergency. Most property owners don’t have a problem with it and allow access. This may not always be the case, but it’s worth asking.
A little softening with an 10 lb. sledge to the the cement may be enough… no?
I would think in this case going in through the windows would offer the quickest entry. The bars appear to be anchored at eight points. A K-12 with an abrasive blade would work nicely. Cannot tell if they are welded to the roll-up frames, or bolted in.
I cant believe nobody said donkey kick!?! My kid had another great idea, FALCON PUNCH!
Maybe I’m just not understanding the setup here, but it seems more like a psych-out than a beefed up lock. If the lock mechanism was taken out and the casing filled with concrete, wouldn’t it be easier to force? With no lock pin to secure the hasp, just breaking the concrete would work, no? Bear with me, these types of locks are rare in my area, so I might be completely off the mark. If so, I’d try cutting the channel guides above/below the lock and prying out to free the gate. Either way, please enlighten me with some further insight.
is it possible that the doorway has block or brick behind it ??
What I want to know is, where the hell did the tv remote go?? It was here last shift.
@riley: LOL
@ bed62: Quite possible, no inside pictures so we are left in the dark.
@Nate999: More than likely the mechanism are in tack. With the concrete out you could see more.
Honestly why the hell would you even waste time to open it though. Probably a good reason as to why the concrete is there.
I am with Nate999, it is a psych-out.
call the realtor, ask to look at. done.
Where do the tenants go in? Knowing this would be useful when we have to go in and get them.
The tenants probably don’t go in. Looks like a vacant to me. I don’t think this is meant to psych anyone out or deter theft. Simply warehousing of a vacant occupancy. If the tenants really want to gain access, the sidewalk doors into the basement might prove the easiest way.
Going through the “windows” might be a pain due to having to deal with both the plywood, bars and whatever may be behind the plywood.
Personally, I think a partner saw through the main entrace gate would be my choice.
From what I can see of the photo this appears to be a taxpayer. That being said there is probably another entrance for the upstairs residences.
I have seen this quite a bit when I liven in the mid-south. The commercial occupancy would be either be boarded up or whitewashed and gated over. The apartments above were still occupied and the tenants had a staircase at either the side or the rear of the building.
These apartments were very low rent and the occupants would fortify the entrances that they do not use.
Check out Fire Engineering’s website for other ways to combat the hockey puck lock. Watch the FREE training minutes and you’ll see a method to cut the channel rail and bend the lock out of the way.
I think the concrete is weak. It does look like in the close up picture that there may be a weld in the gap but it isnt very big. I think a solid hit with the 10lb. sledge would shatter almost all of the concrete. Then I would use the adz end of the halligan just below the weld and use body weight and push down on the bar which should crack that tiny weld. A good Entry team with solid working knowledge and use with the irons should be able to get through this door. Unless I’m missing something, I think it would be about a 5 minute job. Who knows what the inside of this door looks like but just the outside looks fairly reasonable. But be ready to use the rotary saw for sure.
Hey, I just wanted to let everyone know that I forced two doors this afternoon. Of course a great VES story, basement door was secured with 4 2×4’s screwed across the door frame from top to bottom. First thing I thought was “This is one for the site!” Glad I didnt donkey kick the f@#ker, Ida broke my foot. Just wanted to share that cuz I got to force two doors this afternoon. There’s days I like my job, then there’s days I love my job.
I would’ve expected at least a meter pull as well…
First off all doors should be forced and opened in a fire. I would rather have a proactive Truck and Rescue team get these doors out of the way in case someone needed to get out.
I do not have any personal experience with these types of locks but I would like to hear from someone who dose and what they would do in this situation.
And a side note: TO all of the people on here just screwing around find something more productive to do. This is provides alot of good information and the unneeded BS should stop of out respect for your fellow firefighters. This unneeded stuff that is posted on sites like this makes the fire service as a hole look unprofessional and disrespects all firefighters that have gone before us.
While ideally you’d want as many egress points as possible, that’s often not the world we live in. I’m not saying don’t try to get them, I’m just saying that we should initially concentrate on finding “viable” access/egress points to allow us to aid in a timely fire attack/rescue (if I could get two nearby doors quicker, why waste time on one?). The next-in can get it or we can go back after other assignments are complete.
On a side note:
CB, thanks for the tip. If you read the rest of the posts (not to mention the first few comments of this one), you’ll see that many of the “people just screwing around” often do contribute constructively and try to pick up some stuff while they’re here. Every once in a while, some of us like to lighten the mood a little when checking for updated comments and such. In my humble opinion, the collective fire service sense of humor is one of the many things that makes this job great; being able to see what we see and go through what we do every day would be a lot harder if we didn’t have some kind of outlet.
Hey, I just wanted to let everyone know that I forced two doors this afternoon. Of course a great VES story, basement door was secured with 4 2×4’s screwed across the door frame from top to bottom. First thing I thought was “This is one for the site!†Glad I didnt donkey kick the f@#ker, Ida broke my foot. Just wanted to share that cuz I got to force two doors this afternoon. There’s days I like my job, then there’s days I love my job.
Did you find the remote??
Though the concrete may not prove to be too tough of an obstacle, its a good reminder to do a thorough forcible entry size-up. On roll down doors, sometimes you cut the lock, sometimes you cut the channeling, sometimes you cut the door itself. Make sure you know all of your options and don’t stick to one method all the time.