Engineer Steven Negedly from Orlando Fire Dept Engine Company 9 sent in these photos of a new locking system he found during a pre-fire plan of a new big box store in his area. This system is called the Positive Lock system. From the outside, the only indication of it presence is the four carriage bolts and the lock cylinder in the middle of the door. Click here to see the supplemental page with the details and more pictures.
Interesting, this looks like an updated fox type lock.
Where do they leave the key and tool? What does the end of the tool look like?
Does anyone know if it uses a Rim or Mortised Cylinder?
The Best removable cores can also be pulled with a Bam-Bam Tool -then just spin the mechanism with a flat screw driver or key tool.
Personally – we need anyone to be able to open the door with tools on hand. Not looking around for a special key.
Great pics – and good info in the write-up though.
My experience has shown me that the cylinder resembles a rim except that the stem coming off the cylinder is box shaped as opposed to being that of a flat head screwdriver. The K-Tool comes with “allen” like key(which ususally gets lost quickly. I believe it is 5/32nds and that fits the fox lock. Maybe the brothers who found this device can take some closer photos and contact the manufacturer for the specs of the inside of the core.
Brothers don’t get intimidated by these locks (or any lock for that matter.) Once you remove the cylinder guards you are almost home. Pulling the cylinder with some care so as not to destroy the mechanism is important. Keep posting good info.
RS FDNY
hopefully they have that special key in with the other knox box keys.
it may make life easier if not we have our other means to
take care
mike
This looks like a WalMart exit hardware assembly. If you don’t have access to the knox or time does not allow there are techniques for engaging the panic bar from the exterior. The saw is always an option too. You can attack the carriage bolts with a similar technique used for drop bars or use the bolts to reference the location of two plunge cuts to overcome the pins that protrude into the jambs.
This is a Wal-mart rear door. There are three keys in the knox box located directly next to this door. 1 core key, 1 skeleton key, and 1 master to everything in the store once inside. The head of the skeleton key is a triangular box type wrench. Forcing this door during a fire would not be difficult, but opening it the proper way is simpler if you know the system. Just reminds me of an old saying, nothing beats training, except experience. Stay safe and train hard.
Looks like a perfect opportunity to use the “Framing Square” method. The bolt outline the bar perfectly.
I tried the technique on an abandon building and found a cotton hook works just as well, and most pumpers carry five cotton hooks.
acklan- What the heck is a cotton hook?
Probably a mattress hook or hay hook. D-handle, ~ 10″ metal hook attached. Good for dragging a burning mattress to a window or tossing hay bales.
Some pics here: http://www.farmhardware.com/SuperStore/SuperStore-Product.asp?ProductID=5170
thanks for sharing Steve…interesting find
Sorry. That is just what we have always called them down here.
You southern boys carry some strange hooks
Could you shear the bolt heads off with a halligan and then pound the key cylider in?
There are other methods to open the door, but as stated, use the Knoxbox next to the door and it takes no time at all. Works well, we have this same style on our Walmart also. It’s all located at the Riser room and FDC hookups at ours.
Just some info, a frame square technique might not work unless you know the door. The mechanism is off to one side and is 6″ to 8″ in from the door. It takes a considerable amount of force to operate the mechanism. Just some food for thought.
Nothing new about this set up Sams club has been using it for years. All keys should be stored within knox box if not the K-12 will make short work of this door.
If the keys aren’t available or not updated in the knox box, will the k-tool work for pulling the cylinder on this lock?
Its rather odd that you actually pull the core. That tells me that the cylinder is more like a “dummy” and doesn’t have a typical rim cylinder tailpiece. Without seeing the working end of the tool, I don’t know what it looks like on the inside.
I have installed a similar lock (Securitech Trident, ling below) in Rite Aid and Walgreen stores in New England. They are used on the back doors, which are direct access to the stock room, mechanical areas, sprinkler risers and the second floor. Unfortunately they have all been “exit only” meaning there is no lock cylinder on the outside. The bolts directly engage the frame, which is usually concrete filled. The framing square has the same problems (works hard, push bar set off from the door). If it doesn’t work, I’d say cut the hinges, because they are often non-removable pin, and then attack the single bolt on the hinge side. I have yet to see it, but a continuous (sometimes called a “roton” or “piano”) hinge would add to the difficulty.
http://www.securitech.com/Trident-lock-Products.html