Imagine doing a quick search of this room. Either from the doorway, or even as a VES operation. Ask yourself a few questions… How long should it take? What would you expect to find? Did you take notice to the size of the furniture. …And most importantly would you have found this?
43 thoughts on “Quick Search”
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I would like to say I would have caught that, but most likely not. You can bet from now on I will always check inside large furniture. Thanks for opening my eyes!!
I would never have thought to look in side large furniture before this. I will always check now! Thanks
The chairs and piano are tiny, this would indicate a child’s room. Look in corners, in closets and under beds carefully.
Inspired by C.S. Lewis’s “Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe” I’d bet.
Even without the passage way the cabinet is large enough for a child to hide inside of. Also does anyone know if there is a standard doorway into the playroom in addition to the cutout? The link does not indicate.
I just came across the facebook link to this page with a comment that said “Outside size-up should have shown the unaccounted for space.”
Does anyone really think that at night, in the rain, through the trees, with a cut up roofline your 360 would reveal that to be a potentially occupied space and not just attic or knee wall space, if it’s even visible at all? This should be found on the secondary but on the primary I think it’s 50/50.
I say always always always look inside/under/behind when you’re dealing with children’s rooms, play areas, etc. Furniture is a clue. I’d like to think I would notice the lack of a back wall when I looked inside this cabinet telling me something is wrong, but who knows. Yikes!
Better relay this to the IC as soon as it is found. In the case of a Mayday, the FAST team is going to need to know about this. Not much of a space there for firefighter rescue. It must be searched, but you need to let everyone operating know what’s up there…With this, you never know what other nooks and crannies are hiding.
No one in the world would catch this on purpose. On another note, I would really like to see some statistics on how many times children are found hiding like the “book” says. I know it happens but not so much that you have to check the toilet tank and sock drawer. There really isn’t a universal playbook for search. Search as much as you can depending on conditions during a primary, but most of the time you’re limited to the obvious areas. Most of the time you’re gonna find the hiding people during the secondary, if at all, i.e. look what just happened in St. Louis. Believe me, Ive been there and shit happens.
…and, oh yeah, as far as the unaccounted space during the size up…I dont give a shit if it’s 3 a.m. or 3 p.m., rain or shine, you BETTER freaking account for it. That’s how backdrafts and other “rapid fire events” happen and trap firemen.
Have to respectfully disagree with catching **this** as “unaccounted space” on the outside size-up. If you look at the pics closely, it’s looks like this is really just some attic space behind the knee wall that the residents finished into a play area. From the outside you’re only going to see roof (and the beautiful 30 year architectural shingles I just put down with 5 nails each for FL Hurricane codes).
Anyone doing a true primary search would not find that room. Also, if your looking inside furniture your search is obviously going to take to long and you’ll never find a viable victim. Hopefully you’d find that on your secondary, good info
Wow that is straight out of Narnia!!!!!!!!!! I will give an honest assesment of my personal skill and say I would have never found that room….Now I know this is a truck site but even think about the possibility of hidden fire spread and the difficulty for and engine company to extinguish it….its bad news all around
CB, I don’t know for a fact but I would suggest that there is another door.
(Note the lighting matches; to the right of the armoire and the interior of the play room)
I would bet that mommy, daddy or even the nanny has far easier access if not for the kids, for the sake of cleaning.
That lower edge of the thresold isn’t very user friendly!
IMO it’s more of a secret door than a secret room.
Back on to the subject, ‘would you…?’:
I noticed the ‘out of scale furniture’ right away. 😉
That said, searching in zero visibility and checking the armoire I would have probably missed that opening. If I had found it…….
Now that I think about it (even more), I could even imagine the room in question having a railing overlooking the stairs that lead up to this level.
Once again I learn something new. I never would have caught that, but it only takes 5 seconds to open closets, toy chests, etc. I will remember that next time.
Definitely an eye opening post. Definitely would not find that place on a primary search. For the record what kind of wierdo parents setups a deathtrap like that for their kids?
Thats f*cked up!
This is apprently quite a popular addition for people who can afford it…..so if you work in a high end area this could be a reality….check out this site for more information and videos on the types of “hidden passageways”
http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/
I’m pretty sure I would miss that on a primary, but like always every situation is different. When you have tenable conditions and mommy pointing at the room yelling that her kid is in there, your odds of finding them goes way up. Zero visibility during VES doubtful.
The childrens furniture is a sign that there might be a child hiding in the armoire and in the corner.
Nate999, I guess I should clarify. I didnt mean you would be able to account for this being a playroom or such. I really meant that sometimes it’s pretty easy to guess where there would be an area behind a knee wall. Either way it’s pretty important to get it opened up in case there’s extension so it’s doesn’t go KAPLOWEEE. Take care, brother.
Gotcha…definitely agree with you on that one. Never good when things go KAPLOWEEE. Stay low and be safe.
I always thought it was KAPLOOOEEE.
After reading this I compare it to search drills where instructors hide child mannequins on the third shelf of a pantry. In 25 years I have never conducted any search that had children hiding in the pantry. Under beds, yes, In the tub yes, and teh oddest ever was a basement job where a child tried to escape via a basement window and the smoke rendered him unconscious. He wound up between a TV cabinet and the wall. He was found post secondary search. His parents left him home alone so there was nobody outside sayign, “He’s in there.” That being said, this hidden playroom would NEVER be found in a smoke condition during a primary search unless it was a fluke find. The primary search should be quick and as effective as humanly possible as we all know. When training, train realistically having true learning aspect and a CONSTRUCTIVE lesson learned at the end of the evolution. Dont frustrate them and then embarrass them. THEY LEARN NOTHING and resent you for it. Send them home from drills so that they send themselves home from fires.
Now……..don’t all the married guys wish they had a room like this to escape to when the mother in law shows up? Boy I do.
Stay Safe Brothers.
RS FDNY
WOW, I remember an article not to long ago on here about a book case hidding a crib and also another one hidding the stairs. All I can say is open everything and move the furniture when you can to make sure you don’t miss an inch. Thanks for posting this, I’ll be passing this along as well to my fellow FF’s.
Training teaches us the “muscle memory” to do things when it matters most. Websites like this and the brotherhood sharing information is a great network to give us that fighting chance when it matters most. This is again one of those moments to keep things in the back of your mind.
I am not saying I would or would not have been able to find this in a search. But it definitely will be in the back of my mind. And if we have things like this in our minds; if nothing else it would be a good question to ask upon arrival along with doing a good size up.
Stay safe out there
Doing a VES op is the only way to ID this added space. when entering the window you should look at the additional width of the exterior wall on either sides of the window. upon entering if you immediately come in contact with a wall, think knee wall or additional room. even if you have to breech it. you have to recon whats there.
Agree with OnlyHuman. I personely wouldn’t find this room in a primary search, nor would I expect any other member too. However good information shared and something that can be loged into the back of the brain.
FTM-PTB
E Knick
Just a quick note guys. Here is a story from Keene, NH. This took place at Keene State College (approx 5,000 students). It kind of fits here. Suppose something happened when they were in there. Would the FD have found the hidden hatch?
http://www.wmur.com/news/23182283/detail.html
FTM-PTB, Never trust a truss.
Education teaches us what to do.
Training teaches us how to do it.
And experience teaches us when to do it.
Im stealing that.
Excellent submission! I never would have caught this. I wish I could say I would, but it’s one of those things, instinctively, I honestly would have missed. In the smoke, it would have felt like furniture, a cabinet, and I would have checked each side and above.
Something great learned today by this submission, and something I will share with my crew. I always believe there is something new to be learned. This is one great example!
In these days of greater security with the ecomny the way it is we have to think of the possabilty of safe rooms more often. One of my friends has a hidden room where he keeps his firearms.
This is why I have so much respect for firefighters — most of the Internet would’ve tried to tear into the homeowner for having a room like that in the first place, because it’s fun to feel superior or something. Instead, you guys discuss it like a bunch of level-headed professionals, mostly interested in the challenge it provides and the potential to save lives that comes from knowing these features might become more popular. You are truly class acts, and it’s good to know folks like you are looking out for the safety of folks like me.
I certainly would agree with RS FDNY. You can’t be expected to conduct a primary search into an armoir and then during your sweep feel this extended space…What would YOU do if you felt as though there was something behind/in it? You’d probably pull back out and pull the unit from the wall. Only then would you possibly enter that space. If so, I’d tell your “team” or command. We can’t be expected to enter/fine every imaginative space that a well thought out parent (idiot) would put into that room. Are they trying to hide something or someone? Situations like that really work on us as responders and I’d be concerned that I missed the search but conversely I would accept the fact that a parent put a child into a situation like that preventing anyone from having a chance to finding them…
CF MFRE E2
Connecticut
More than likely in a search I would not have caught THIS. However after aboutfive seconds of looking at the picture I was wondering what you found in the armoire. I was expecting a hiding child but never in another room.
These “rooms” are more common than we think.. SOUND THOSE FLOORS !!!
That is just wrong. Do people honestly not think of the implications of their actions. I hate to say I would have probably never thought to search in there and I bet most every one else wouldn’t either.
In all honesty folks, something caught me with the large armoire. Didn’t think it concealed what it did, but I did have a suspicion. The guys here have a similar link that shows what appears to be a “built in bookshelf” but it actually disgused the stairway leading to the second story. Closed, it looked like some really nice custom carpentry work.
here is the link for the article I mentioned in my post
http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=326
I found mention of this website via a comment (by a firefighter, I think) on a “Narnia Playroom” article on BoingBoing. Even as an adult with no kids, I loved the idea of hidden rooms and secret doorways… but never considered the real dangers in a fire.
Am also realizing that our 103-year-old Craftsman home’s attic access is very well hidden (wallpapered closet door and stairs up from inside the closet). I’ll ask our local fire station folks if we should change it, or if they keep files of things like this for all the properties in their area…
Thanks for all you guys do to keep us safe!
I’d sweep the walls looking for built in doors and any possible hiding places a child would go to when scared. Some people make DIY drop down playrooms underneath the flooring. Always check dressers.