Lieutenant Scott Egan from Orange County Firehouse 50 sent in these photos from his first due. It’s another one of those interior security bar setups that we have featured before. This one, however, is a little bit more secure then some of the others we have seen. Think about some of the issues this may cause. One in particular is the fact that you cannot force the rollup until after the primary front door is taken. Depending on the smoke conditions inside, you may not even be able to see the rollup prior to forcing the actual front door.
An excellent example of knowing your district! If this building were heavily charged with smoke and you forced the front door you may become frustrated when you meet the roll up door. If all that secures that roll up is the padlock we can make easy work of that, if we anticipate it.
If I did force the front door and were trying to open the roll up in heavy smoke, I might consider removal of some windows on either or both sides to amke conditions safer.
i think an abrasive disk and the irons would handle everything here. halligan to the window on the door, work the lock mechanism from the inside, abrasive disk on the roll up. the way this roll up is designed i dont think you can disassemble the slats themselves, i could be wrong. i would make three cuts. one on each side, one on the top and let it fall down and over the bottom sill like a welcome mat.
conversely, if with the same tools, the window can be taken and the accordian can be cut with abrasive disk. the window would be my last resort though, cause who knows if that wall is just a display and can be moved. if not, it will cause a pinch point and restrict egress.
above all, i wouldnt force the door untill the guys on the roof opened it up. or if it was multistory, vented it in elsewhere.
I would have to agree with the others on this one. I don’t think this would be a very big problem. For the first door a simple k-tool and picks could take care of the locking mechanism. The roll up door by the looks of it only has a padlock which could be broken with either a duckbill or cut with a k-12. If you have the k-12 though, and depending on the situation it may be easier and quicker to just make a few cuts on the roll up itself.
No matter how you look at it, it’s still a good thing to know. In terms of forcing entry, I’d agree with making cuts on the roll up door. Great find in my 3rd due!
If you manage to gain entry and for the moment the building is tenable, the presence of these devices (at the front) may hint at many more to come. Something to keep in mind if you find that you have to leave in a hurry. 😉
On a less serious note, that town must have some pretty tough ‘Fashion Police’ to warrant that kind of security!
We are finding these types of roll ups more and more since Katrina and Rita. They are solid corrugated sheet aluminum. Not of slat design. The same doors you find on mini-storage. They also do not have a spring recoil, but are coiled onto a spindle in the storage canister overhead. Once up they generally stay up.
I have used a 36″ set of bolt cutter every time we encountered these canister doors.
If I am mistaken, and these are the spring loaded roll up doors, I agree with you that a K12 cutting a 4 ft center would be the best option. Leaving two vertical panels intact, near the tracts, in case the springs failed from heat.
One other note. While I have not use the following method, be aware that the hasp is secured with 4 rivets. I would try the pick of a halligan to pry it loose. The sheet aluminum should not be that hard to defeat.
Are we sure it’s an Active door ? Or something the merchant has blocked off from the public on the interior. I ask this because in the 2nd photo it looks like a small sign on the door on left directing folks to another entrance. We’ve all seen Store A grow and expand over to store B in these type Strip Malls. Just an observation.And don’t say it would be against Code to block an EXIT. We’ve all seen it before.
Are we sure it’s an Active door ? Or something the merchant has blocked off from the public on the interior. I ask this because in the 1st photo it looks like a small sign on the door on left directing folks to another entrance. We’ve all seen Store A grow and expand over to store B in these type Strip Malls. Just an observation.And don’t say it would be against Code to block an EXIT. We’ve all seen it before.
GOOD CALL pat russell. Notice the interior exit sign hanging from the ceiling. But still most likely to be found on all the other doors as well, as someone has already stated. Breaking the glass is all fine but you still have the push handle in the way. Might take just as long as spinning off the cylinder and thru the lock which would be my prefrence… time permiting.
Good job Egan, the only thing i would do different would be to cut the bolt on the double door, by separating the double doors with wedges and cutting it with a k-12. less damage to the door and saw will be ready for lock, or the roll up door…
Good job Egan, the only thing i would do different would be to cut the bolt on the double door, by separating the double doors with wedges and cutting it with a k-12. less damage to the door and saw will be ready for lock, or the roll up door…
YEPPER, REX TOOL AND BOLT CUTTERS. I’M OUT. “KNOW YOUR ENEMY”
YEPPER, REX TOOL AND BOLT CUTTERS. I’M OUT. “KNOW YOUR ENEMY”
Yes, this store expanded, but the exact same set up is on the “main” entrance also.
Yes, this is in one of the worst sections of town so the “fashion police” are in full force here.
You should see some of the other unique locking items I have found. One day I will send in some more pictures for here.
Stay safe. Learn your area.
~Egan
What’s in that store anyway?
either gold bullion or men’s and women’s clothing….judging by the window display I’d guess clothing.
I agree with all of the above. Does the “Main Entrance” have the same display boards and scissor gates infront of the windows on the side of the door? If not, I would consider using those windows for primary entrance then notify the next due Truck or Rescue Co. and give them the assignment of removing those doors. I also agree with verticle vent. as soon as possible, structural conditions permitting, in an attempt is redirect the smoke and heat and give the initial attack team and entry/search team an easier time getting into the building.
K-12 everything….
Couple ideas…after you pull the locks on the aluminum stile door, venting the small window directly above the door may allow you to get close enough to the roll down to remove the padlock. Having a tower ladder or ground monitor in place would be a considerable asset should heavy fire condition be present. Either of those water delivery devices would be highly reccomended if there are sisscor gates in stead of the roll down. The roll down might provide some protection as a shield. Another issue would be getting the roll down up after it is released. There is a good chance the tracks would be distorted from the heat. In that case a rotary saw equiped with an aggressive carbide-tipped blade would make short work of the roll down door.
you can be sure that if the front looks like this….the back is probably worse…..before ya jump in guns a blazin better make sure you do a quick risk analysis…”risk a lot to save a lot” type question….if it’s locked up that tight ain’t no one home….anything above the store Egan?
Another thought is most “big box” stores are what the companies that own them call disposable assets. The items that they sell are many times on consignment, so there is no loss of merchandise to the building owner. It is cheaper for most large companies to take that rare loss of a store than to pay the huge premiums for insurance. So if the company that owns the place doesn’t care that much about the place, why should we risk our people by going inside to save it when there is advanced fire conditions? Most of these modern taxpayers/strip mall buildings use open web bar joists… Also, speaking with a field supervisor that builds fast food restraunts, he told us that they are built to collapse which saves on rebuilding costs when they come in and throw up a new one.
Not to hijack the thread, but Jamie is absolutely correct about the “disposable buildings” philosophy.
We had a job in a fast food chain restaurant last year. Light to moderate smoke condition at ceiling level upon arrival but quickly determined to be fire running the truss loft. Long story short, we almost killed about six guys burning this joint to the ground. The next day the lot was swept clean, and they were reopened in a brand new building six weeks later. (I think they just dropped the new building on the lot with a helicopter, since there’s no way they could build one that fast!) Sure enough, the chain doesn’t even insure their buildings, as its cheaper to rebuild than pay premiums!
We’ve also got a new McDonalds being built which we’ve been watching through the construction process. It’s a one story 2×6 wood frame with panelized veneer. The roof system, however, is the real scary part… The top & bottom chords of the trusses are lamintaed/finger-jointed 2×3, with the top chord under compression suspended by the walls and the bottom chord tensioned, but free hanging from the web. The web appears to be about 1″ diameter aluminum pipe, similar to electrical EMT conduit. (Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend anyone by saying “EMT” on this site! 🙂 )
It’s just another example of landlords and entrepreneurs lining their pockets with the lowest overhead possible, regardless of the risk to us. If they don’t give a crap about their building then why should we? We’ve lost enough brothers (& sisters, too) in fast food joints and other disposable buildings. Let’s start learning from each other’s tragedies… Bang out a quick primary, pull everyone out, and set up the tower ladders.
Thanks, I feel better. Now I’ll get off the soap box so someone else can have a turn.
Be safe Brothers!
Chris
Oh, and PS: I agree with the K-12 & abrasive disc for the topic at hand… Drop it down between the two doors to take the latch of the Adams-rite lock, then either nip the chinsy padlock or cut the roll down, depending on conditions. I would, however, avoid taking the glass in the front doors… lose the glass, lose control! And, how often have you seen the brothers drop the glass then advance the line through the door (literally, up over the bottom style, and under the panic bar)? This doesn’t allow a hasty retreat when things go down hill fast, and they certainly tend to do that in taxpayers and other commercial occupanices!
hey you abrasive disc guys should look into diamond blades. never have to change ’em and they sharpen with a dip into concrete. time is everything.
I’d love to hear a little more feedback from the streets on the diamond blades…
I’ve used them a couple times in training, and wasn’t real impressed. (The real aggressive chunky looking ones.) To me it seemed to “skip” or “chatter” alot when starting into metal, such as rebar or window screens. I haven’t had the opportunity to use one on a rolldown yet, but I didn’t find it to be as fast as an abrasive disc, nor did it seem as safe with the props had to work with.
Maybe that’s just my limited experience using them speaking, but I’m interested to know if others have had similar results.
Thanks, be safe Brothers.
Chris
Chris… we’ve tried a “carbide” blade that was “chunky”, and it was “ok”. The “diamond” blades I’ve seen (Tiger Tooth, etc) look like a finer tooth blade (and narrower). Any more feedback on these “diamond” blades would be appreciated. Thanks.
We’ve done some trials with the Paraya blade. They cut metal as fast if not a little faster than a composite. They cut masonry MUCH faster than a composite. They suck at cutting wood, but will do it. We also came across some interesting information concerning diamond blade manufacturing… It seems that a fair amount of those blades are manufactured by the same company and then labeled for the specific company selling them. So, the Tiger Tooth and Paraya blades may be the same blade. Still trying to confirm this 100% though. Stay safe.
officers tool takes care of the mortise on the glass door……..cheap lock , halligan…………you should be in there in about half a second.
Im thinking perhaps, the “JAWS”or any other hydrolic tool ie; port-a-power could be valuble tools in forcing these steel roll ups
Gotta agree with james on this one….officers tool and halligan should be more than enough….brains not brawn on this one boys!
By the time you get that rotary saw off the truck and started we’d have entry!