We recently had the pleasure of spending the day with the Clearwater (FL) Truck 45. The crew of Truck 45 was an extremely dialed-in and well trained crew in regards to truck company functions. One of the many points of discussion throughout the day was the age old debate of Bucket vs. Straight Stick. Clearwater Truck 45 is a Tractor Drawn 100ft Aerial, so the crew was quite familiar with ways to maximize effectiveness without the need for a bucket.
One of the simple yet effective methods they shared was how they rig their aerial when making the roof. Whenever the aerial is being utilized for roof operations, the tip is loaded with some essentials prior to beginning operations. Â The crew loads a total of three saws, at least two hooks, and a roof rescue bag. Their saw complement is extremely well thought out… 2 saws for whatever roof is expected (wood vs. metal) and an additional saw for the opposite roof material just in case. This complement of saws has served them well, and has allowed them to continue effective operations when a different roofing material is encountered. This can actually happen quite regularly with build-outs and additions. In addition, a roof ladder is secured to the fly section of the aerial whenever a parapet is known, or expected. This simple addition of the most commonly utilized tools for roof operations prior to operating the aerial allows members to climb the aerial with both hands, or even better, to provide free hands for whatever other equipment is needed. For example, at least one member always carries a set of irons to roof.
(as mentioned earlier they actually attach three saws, only two are shown above)
Their method of attaching the saws is simple, a section of webbing is girth hitched onto the aerial, looped though the saw handle, and secured back onto itself with a carabineer. This method allows the saw to be removed easily by simply unclipping the carabineer, without having to deal with removing the girth hitch.
The beauty of this operation comes in the actual placement of the aerial to the roof. The aerial is flown higher than the roof, and over (beyond) the edge. The aerial is then lowered until the equipment lands safely on the roof, or goes behind the parapet. The final step of the operation involves retracting the aerial slightly so it is level with, and just away from the roof. This final placement allows for the tools to be readily available to the crew once they make the roof, and allows for an easy safe transition off of the aerial. They realize this placement may slightly limit the aerial’s “visibility” from across the roof, but have found it provides a much safer and quicker way to transition from the aerial to the roof. The aerial tip lighting, and the equipment staying attached (like the roof rescue bag, and “off saw”) provide for easy spotting of the aerial form across the roof. Â Also visible in the picture is a bean bag on a piece of webbing. This remains attached at all times, and is used for verifying aerial placement to the building or window when the other equipment is not attached.
The key to success with this operation (as with any other) is with training. The speed and precision that was demonstrated by the Truck 45 crew proved that they train on this operation regularly. A special thanks goes out to Division Chief Riley, Lieutenant Capo, and the three Jim’s for spending the time with us and talking fire.
Photos by Jeff Spinelli
Great stuff! Picked up this from a class these gents taught and it works quite well. Like anything else, you gotta practice it. We’re not as smooth as them yet, but are working at it.
Very cool guys. I’ll have to remember this and try it out next training session.
On a separate note….Be VERY careful of those pinned waterways.
AWESOME!!! Might not be a bad idea to “Pratice” aerial/ ladder ops. with ‘dummy’ saws (ie; a bag/ bucket filled with sand to match the saws weight). Its just an alternative to swingin’ $5,000 worth of cutting equipment into a roof resulting in “unwanted” wear & tear, and “unwanted” drama from the Brass. Great idea! Stay safe boys & girls.
Just out of curiosity, what’s in your roof rescue bag?
Awsome, Thanks for sharing truck 45.
It’s not a good idea to have saws or anything else dangling from the ladder and swinging out in space. We have a scabbard for the chain saw at the tip and a mount for a roof hook. Securing the circ saw in the bed of the fly ladder with a carrying strap would work better.
That would eliminate the chance of getting the saws or strapping hooked on something (especially at night) and damaging the tools and/or the ladder. It would also make it easier to get the tools if the ladder were over extended or you encounter a taller than expected parapet.
Also, be aware of how much weight you are loading the tip with, it’s easy to exceed the rating of the ladder.
Out think it, don’t over-think it!!!
Kind of a “6 vs. 1/2 dozen” argument Fyrbub. Securing the cutoff saw to the fly section, you run the risk of it getting caught between rungs as the aerial’s being extended. Mounts are nice, but if you don’t have any, this offers you a quick way to get your gear to the roof, while giving you a visual spot for the tip.
Also, most aerial tip loads have a 50# equipment allowance factored in (500# tip load is actually 550#). That, and the saws are rested on the roof when possible, eliminating overload concerns.
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Just a thought but…what about a piece of plywood with cutouts for the saws to sit and be secured to that has supports that fit between the rungs. You can secure the saws to the plywood and the plywood to the rungs without “dangling” expensive equipment from the ladder. You can also put the “Bag” on top of it and strap it down as well.
always refreshing to see folks thinking outside the box. the ability to do that seperates some from others and makes us good at what we do.
Great job Clearwater. I hear anecdotal stories of this being done here in NY back in the 60s probably when they first go the saws. Climbing with the saw (Partner) is awkward, dangerous, and it slows you down. We lost a firefighter a few years ago when he fell off the roof after getting off the aerial. Also as someone who has dropped the saw to the roof 4 feet beacuse of a high parapet they are more durable than you think.
Probationary FF Danny Pujdak L-146 was that casualty. He took L-108’s aerial to the roof of a 6 story occupied. Aerial went to the top of the bulkhead. Danny ascended with tools compliment and the partner saw over his shoulder. He took the skylight then remounted the aerial to descend to the roof level. As he was dismounting, the saw swung off his shoulder adn teh momentum took him off the ladder and he fell to his death to the street below. Roof Positioned FF here in NYC carries Halligan, Halligan Hook, Roof Rope. Top Floor fires have the OVM take the Saw and his tools to the roof. 2nd Arriving Roof FF will take the saw as well. Tragic loss for L-146 and the Pujdak family.
Stay safe.
Am I the only one who thinks this is insane and totally useless? In the amount of time it would take a crew member or two to rig up this contraption, one could just as easily throw the stick to the roof, climb it (with a tool,saw,ect) and survey the scene once they were on the roof. You get up there and realize you need different or added equipment climb back down or call for additional resources. I work in Boston and I couldn’t imagine throwing the stick with two saws, a rake, and a rope bag dangling from it, let alone ANY chief being okay with seeing it going over the fireground. This is one of those things that appears to look good in theory, on paper, or at training, but on game day, is a complete waste of time and effort. Someone said in this post earlier, “out think it, don’t over think it” Well in my opinion this is “over thinking it” to the extreme. Position the truck, throw the stick, take the roof. Simple. Easy. Done.
CD
I agree with Jester. What happens when swinging the Aerial to the roof, and someone appears at a window? Also, do you not have overhead wires in your district? In my city, it is often a tight fit with trees and wires when manuvering to the building. Seems like a lot of stuff to snag.
Waste of time and effort…Seriously?
Climbing back down to get something you needed is the real waste. These are secured with webbing and carabiners (doubles as a normal sling) and can be rigged up before the outriggers are even on the ground.
Not everyone has the additional resources of a larger city, either. Tools being carried by hand are just as much a danger, if not more, than tools secured with 4500# webbing.
As for a victim presenting at a window, this setup doesn’t obstruct the tip to where you couldn’t get it to the window.
If you’ve got tight spots/power lines, this may not be the setup for you. However, like everything on this site, it’s just another tool for the toolbox. If it works for you, cool. If not, that’s cool too, but don’t knock somebody for trying to come up with something new.
I have an opinion too on this subject and it is way better than anyone has or ever will come up with. I am the best fireman in the world and my way is the only way to do it.
SERENITY NOW!!!
Your opinion’s not in my first-due…
Seriously, though. Seen these guys do it, and they’re pretty quick with it.
I was going to go on a diatribe about “opinions” and “assholes”…….I will retreat from that and simply say that I support the message that Dman is conveying without saying it in his post.
RSFDNY,
Are you implying that I am not the best fireman in the world? Because I will make a series of insults and threats since I am so tough and know I will probably never actually be face to face with you in my life.
No need for me to imply that you are the best. I know it. I would enjoy donkey kicking a few housing project doors along with you.
HAHA.
I think my message was misinterpreted. All I am saying is that I think this is a bit much and appears unsafe. If it works in Clearwater, that’s great. Personally, I feel that it unnecasary, and can confirm that it would never be allowed in my dept. No one said anything about being better or smarter then anyone else. Progressive thinking is great, but firefighting in an ancient art, and sometimes sticking to the basics works just fine. I appologize for any hurt egos.
I like the idea. I work within a bucket so its a bit easier to bring the saws up with us. My question is about the roof rescue bag. What is contained within the bag and why? Seems like a great idea if its what i think
This is a good idea and can be of great use when applied in the right situations. Anyone who has climbed a 100′ aerial at an angle of more than 60 degrees with a BA and tools slung over a shoulder or sliding tools along the beam and think it is faster and safer needs to seriously reconsider their statement. This is another reason why training is so valuable. Learning is not just for probies!
The road to disaster is paved with good intentions.