Lieutenant Michael Brown from Baltimore (MD) Truck Company #15 sent in this interesting door. Like any good Lieutenant would, he wanted credit for the picture and description given to his crew of Truck Company 15 “A†Shift.
The picture is of a structure in their first alarm district. It is secured with ½ steel plates. For obvious reasons, they are unable to determine the exact type of locking mechanisms used on the inside. So, like so many forcible entry problems, you have to use the information apparent from the outside to determine how to force the door. The hinges appear to be half barrel pin hinges, but the weight of steel and the height from the ground would more than likely make lifting/leverage very difficult.
The brothers at Truck 15 A came up with few possible solutions: First, depending upon fire conditions, enter via ground ladder on the second floor and make their way down to the door/window to be able to identify and disable the locking mechanisms from the inside. The second possibility would be to attack the window where the two swinging doors meet; the window appears to be very weak at the seam, once the windows are opened, enter through the window and get the door open from inside. A third potential solution would be to use the rabbit tool to pop the door. This may or may not be feasible depending any bracing of locking mechanisms located on the inside.
How about just setting up the TL out front and pouring water on it so none of US gets killed for another damn vacant building? This is definitely NOT a nice Jewish neighborhood so who is gonna call and say those firemans didnt fill up their ropes with water! How about just popping the plywood of the building next door and breaching the wall? Thats probably where the fire will be anyway cause of its easy access to skells and the like.
I would try to “pop” the window under the reinforced window and enter to unlock it from the inside. The easiest way in would be to cut the hinges with a oxy-gasoline torche. No one needs to enter and two fire fighters can do it with little effort.
Sorry, my fingers are two fat and are hard to type with. I mean torch not torche!
I am going to have to agree with Jon on this one. By the looks of this building, it is vacant, and if it isn’t it is a life hazard to us as firefighters. Just because this type of security measures are visible doesn’t mean there are others that aren’t visible. So no matter what, this type of building is going need a good overlook before making any quick interior decisions.
I must read this website differently or something. When I read posts like these, I assume worst case senario, i.e. you have to get in. Therefore I try to think of ways to defeat what is seen on the post. I agree a lot of what we see posted are building we would not enter, but what if these doors were on a different building, with people in it, then what?
If people are in it? That lock will pop right out of that brick. Get a maul and get the brick away from the lock. Or just torch it, but thats gonna take some time and who knows how thick that steel is, when it falls the guy doing the cutting is not gonna be happy!
Jet Axe!
Dave said about popping the window below the reinforced window and unlocking the other. I would think that the bottom window takes you to the floor below? I may be wrong but with the layout of the steps ect, it points to the 1st floor / basement floor separation.
I like Chris’s idea..pop that grate and window out and try and get in that way. Also, some most truck companies dont carry torches so if the rescue is taking a while youd have to think of something else. Popping the windows may or may not be a good idea as well. If you have an active fire in that room trying to open the swinging doors might prove problematic unless you jammed a hose in there. Finally, the last choice I can see would be to use the Partner saw and cut the hinges on both doors and let them flop down.
Looks like something from one of the SAW movies.
It will let you in, but wont let you out.
LOL
knowing how things are in baltimore if you walked around back you’d probably come to find the back door wide open or the roof collapsed into the basement and the only thing left standing is the wall on side A
Where can I get doors like these.
Maybe that will keep my mother in law OUT.
Stay Safe Brothers.
First, thanks for submitting.
I have to agree with DMAN72…. real world presents us with a great opportunity to find real things at the worst times. This webpage is a great way to find something and use it as a training “WHAT IF?” scenarios. Here we can find the worst things at the best times.
I have heard some fire schools even use these pictures on this web page to discuss those types of items with their students. (I know two states that do that at least)
At the very least, this web page starts thinking, sometimes in the box (or bucket), sometimes out of it. Use the pictures with your crew to discuss what they would do if they were faced with this item and HAD TO GET IN.
Read and discuss it here as well, but remember local SOP and situations may differ from what someone says here. We all know regions, states and sometimes shifts do things differently then others. But reading and sharing what you would do may spark thoughts for others.
Stay safe.
My gut is side charlie. Breaching the wall of the Delta 1 exposure is brick, and know Bmore, probably load bearing. If it is a severe middle of group (unlikely in Bmore) go through Delta1 to access Charlie side. Baltimore has a BAD habit of turning single families into multi tenanted units. A hard lesson learned from Allen Roberts. RIP, brother. If you must access Alpha, smal cuts at the bolt heads on the hinges to defeat them. One minute tops with a cut off saw.
I agree with Chris on the jet axe,what ever happend to those things? Oh ya they don’t trust firemen with explosives,only the copper types have breaching charges… Wouldn’t think that that would make our jobs safer go to the roof lay some det cord get back in the bucket move away pop the hole,no staying on the roof with saws and axes.Only thinking for this modern world
If the back of this building is as secured as the front, I’m going with Jon’s idea. Flood from the outside so everyone goes home. If the building is as secured as it appears to be, what are the chances that it would have people in it? Unless they got in from one of the exposures, and if they did shame on them. Remember, our safty comes first. Remember, we didn’t put them there. You can’t always fix stupid. Be Safe Brothers and Sisters.
Are those security bars I see in the window of the dbl steel door? I suspect if you get that door open you might be facing another hurdle. I’d be more than a little leary of going in through the basement window…..if you need a second means of egress you might find yourself facing those bloody doors again from the opposite side this time….in bad conditions.
interesting. this cat will get skinned, the how is up to you. but this cat weighs upwards of 600 pounds. Also you are operating on open steps, or from the bucket or a ladder for the double doors, adding a certain degree of difficulty. So when you skin the cat, make sure the skin doesn’t fall on you. it just might hurt.
One of the brother’s mentioned the hinges and cutting the top of them. These hinges I have seen before on old alley doors here in NYC. They are a solid design with a male and female half with the door basically having the female half of the hinge sit on the male portion. You may be able to lift them off, but then you have a heavy problem on your hands, not fun at all! Also the one Brother mentioned the fact that we can all see the obvious, and after reading that I too responded with what we would do in the event we HAD to get in there. I would hope the obvious (our safety) is in fact obvious!
Stay Safe Bro’s!
I agree with the small window idea. However it might be advisable to take a small folding attic ladder with you into the basement incase this is a house under renovation and has no stairwell to the main floor. I would have to assume that trying to hop back up and out of that small window would be troublesome.
Here’s my take:
Someone mentioned that they saw burglar bars on the windows, what most likely happened is that they figured that they wouldn’t prevent the windows from being broken, so they added this extra measure.
The door: the barrel/pin hinge can be used to our advantage, K12 the left side of the door where the lock/handle would traditionally be, then slide the rabbit under the door to one side, lift up the heavy mother and it’ll do it’s own job in falling off onto the curb.
What you might find is actually a 4way multilock on the other side of the door (http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=242) then one could make a cut in the center of the door in the shape of a square, each cut being 12-14 inches long, hopefully defeating the assembly.
Everyone’s feedback greatly appreciated….
As always our safety comes first, but this site is known for thinking outside the box. Is there any way we could get a close up pic of the locking mechanism on the door? ALL locks can be defeated, some just take longer then others. As for the window, with the appearance of burglar bars on the window, the locking setup may not be as complicated as we think. it quite possibly may just be a drop bar with a padlock. if we had closer pictures, we may skin this cat quicker then first thought. FTM PTB&S
I’m thinking outside the box and the city. We are an all volunteer dept. in a tiny rural town, so there is always at least one of us on scene with a big-ol pick-up. We would just bust the glass, run a chain through the holes in the window, and snatch that mother down. It’s not pretty or by any means by the book, but it would work.
I love the website, it gives me a chance to see and learn things that we never face out here in the sticks. But it sure will be nice if I am ever faced with any of these “problems”.
Git ‘er Dun right keith? 🙂
Yessir! Rednecks and firemen tear up stuff better than anybody I know, so when you put the two together just sit back and enjoy the show.
hey, thats my house =(
I would probably scout the rear, or make access through the easy to breach basement window and attempt to unlock the door or window from the interior.
I didn’t read every single response above, but…
Why not treat the door as a ‘doggy door’ and just cut the bottom 1/3-1/2 of the door under where the locking mechanism might probably be and swing it open (crawl in) and unlock it for everyone else from the inside…
I like the chain idea it opens both of those doors to the left and gives you a sizable entry point and exit point if needed. You should not enter where you cant get out quick.