Well that’s not normally a title you’d expect to see on a truck site…But apparatus placement is a very important aspect of truck work. Everyone who has been in the fire service for any length of time understands the old saying “you can stretch hose, but you can’t stretch a ladder.†While this saying has merit, we must also take into consideration our objective and compare it to what the fire conditions dictate. It seems that people frequently take building collapse into consideration when it comes to placement, but how about a rapid change in fire conditions like this? There certainly is a time when we may be too close. Here is one of those videos that have been floating around the fire service. We certainly don’t have the full story, but we’re confident the apparatus operator will position differently next time.
13 thoughts on “Stream placement and effectiveness”
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The video isn’t loading. Maybe you could incorporate the link.
Try this link:
http://www.vententersearch.com/videos/bucketfire.wmv
Holy crap……
talk about collapes zone….
OMG!!!
Did you see that void space (the edge of the roof) started opening up, like somebody is opening his mouth?
WOW! Not only a placement problem but a huge GPM problem also.
WOW sucks to be that guy
Yeah, its hard to even comment on this one cause there’s so much to talk about. I really hope that its not their normal set up procedures and if it is that they do some revamping of a few topics. Does any one have any more info on this one….injuries…etc…?
This appeared to be outside of the US, but there are some items that translate universally.
In no particular order:
Water supply. I don’t know if this company was operating with their standard tip at their standard pressure or if there were water issues. I’m sure all of us have, at one point or another, stared at our gun(s) and wondered if someone was kidding. Pressure/volume problems, pump problems, etc. can all complicate developing and maintaining an effective elevated stream.
Conditions on arrival versus conditions 20 minutes later. I’m sure that most of us have also had a fire go south on us for whatever reason. What we roll in on (or what it appears to be) may not wind up being what we spend most of our time at that incident fighting. A fire that looks like a piece of cake or maybe even a good workout on arrival can turn into a building evacuation and defensive stand due to any number of issues. I remember one glorious frigid night in the platform after we’d been forced out of an OMD by heavy fire on multiple floors; the first-due truck had taken a great position on the A/B side on arrival, when it appeared one apartment on the #1 floor was involved in the rear. A couple of hours into the incident, a large portion of the A wall came down and missed the front of this rig by a few feet.
Tying into the second consideration, POSITIONING. Real estate is everything for the truck apparatus. Not knowing what the rest of the access to this building was, or the ability of the road to support the load of the rig, maybe this driver took what appeared to be their best or only shot at getting the aerial device up. Since the aerial device won’t do anybody any good in the bed, the decision is often made to take a less than perfect position than to take no position at all. Sometimes the apparatus may need to be repositioned due to changing conditions. The situation needs to be monitored and relayed to both Command and the members operating at the incident. In general, if a member is available to man the turntable, they add a measure of safety for members operating on the roof, in the platform or on the stick and can also serve as a sort of safety officer for that area of the incident. The turntable operator will be able to monitor conditions (fire, building stability, etc.) on at least one side of the building and can relay pertinent information.
Most importantly, I hope the member in the platform made out okay.
As always, this site provides a ton of food for thought. You guys are doing great work.
Be safe.
I read an article recently where a European fire chief was chastizing the american fire service for its over agressiveness. It would apear from this video, the Europeans could have taken a lesson from our play book and actually sent someone in to sizeup the situation!
i think that we should all use this as an example for ppe no matter what when on scene you need to be in full ppe you never know what may happen or when it will happen we can all guess but its better to be safe that sorry.
From where I sit in my comfy chair, doing the monday morning quarterback thing…a brother lost his life. Apparatus placement is one thing…But no suit made could have prevented his death, only a decision..his captains. Be stupid, listen to bagpipes.
This was a fire in Sweden, the firefighter was OK, he was wearing his bunker gear, it was a kind of backdraft, fresh air got inside and the result was that the whole roof was slightly lifted.
Being from Finland, just next to Sweden, I can say that Sweden has very well developed methods for offensive interor attacks using PPV and cold cutting systems, with great results. But they don’t use master streams very much.
Im Glad the firefighter on the ladder was not injured
that incident just enforces the old saying expect the
unexpected