Sometimes we are not even sure what to say about some of the videos that get sent in to us. This video was sent in by an anonymous friend. It seems like a good follow up to our most recent post discussing The Lost Art of the Fire Service. The real fun begins at 1:55, be sure to put it in full screen mode so you can truly appreciate the madness.
[flv]http://www.vententersearch.com/videos/flv/garageentry.flv[/flv]
Actually, we take that back, this isn’t an issue about not understanding the Art, this is an issue about losing focus on what our objective is. It’s one thing for the first guy to do what he did (even though he should have known better), but the second guy should have been able to see the bigger picture. He was remote enough from the lunacy he should have realized what was happening. We cannot ever lose focus… We need to remember to work smarter, not harder on the fireground. You almost can’t go wrong grabbing the rotary saw when there is fire in a garage…
By the way, nice touch by the IC at about 1:29, it almost got away from ya there…
One last thought… Just because you know how to start the saw does not mean you know how to use it!
One, Two, Three…Kick…One, Two, Three…Kick…
Some Tucan Music would be nice.
Hmmm…Give it a little push…nope… ahh kick it…nope…double kick it…nope…oh yeah, pike poles are excellent prying tools!…nope…
Ok so as for forcing the second garage door I kinda wonder if try before you pry should have come into effect. It appears that they are seperate compartments, the delta side seems to have a man door near the D/C corner (Look closely and tell me if you agree.) so I’d atleast check if the other one does. It would give you a much easier door to force to check for extension.
My guess is that this is from a smaller town/village where the fire dept doesn’t see that much action (yes I know it’s no excuse, but lack of experience is a reality). I may be wrong of course.
A few concerns I had:
14 secs – No helmet or SCBA walking by a burning structure.
1:30 – Incident Commander with no SCBA on his back (there appears to be no other units on site at this point, he is the 2 FF’s only backup if things go wrong). IC appears distracted by burning trash.
1:32 – FF leaves his partner working alone
2:00+ – No comment on the creative door breaching… it’s been covered in the initial post.
2:21 – FF on left has SCBA facepiece hose unplugged and dangling (IC catches it at 2:33, FF plugs it back in. good job from IC)
3:07 – FF starts rescue saw with no gloves, goggles on and shield up.
3:14 – FF is about to use his rescue saw with no gloves on (but he did lower his shield)
3:41 – Chief wearing incomplete bunker inside perimeter.
4:18 – FF picks up and uses hose line without gloves
By the way pointing out these issues are not meant to be mean or demeaning. Please take this as constructive criticism. We all make mistakes and the only way to correct them is to made aware of them.
From the moment that the kicking began, I kept thinking,”Where’s the saw; do they have a saw; where IS the saw?” It went on for so long that I was actually surprised when the saw suddenly appeared. Of course, the act of grabbing the proper tool activated the “law of fireground irony”, and the two door-kickers finally managed to open the door without the tool.
Engine 58, good closing statement. There is no use in belittling each other. I’ve seen mistakes made by huge career departments by tiny volunteer departments. Everyone screws up, the key is recognizing and correcting the mistakes.
The good news is that there are still departments, large and small, where the “art of the fire service” is not lost at all.
Seems to me like the firefighters trying to open the overhead door, were attempting the “donkey kick” forceable entry technique after reading too many posts on this website instead of reading basic firefighting techniques.
I’m all for safety,but safety is going to be the reason that eventually we will no longer be able to attack fires from the inside.
Everyone knows you face away from the target when administering a donkey kick. That being said, I am offended by all of your comments. This is the fire service, people. Don’t you know that it is our job to take an easy, manageable situation with almost no chance of it getting worse and make it as complicated as it can possibly be?
At least they were still wearing SCBA during salvage & overhaul.
At least the video is high quality.
Hey hey hey!!! This must be a bunch of engine pukes on the truck!! 🙂 on another note**** at 1:20 anyone hear the excitement about the lights being turned on!! YAYYY FOR LIGHTS
Next time any of you stop by The Hong Kong Phooey FD, please pick me up a shirt. XL. Thanks. Other than that I’m speechless. God protects Drunks and Fools……..and sometimes firemen.
2 Tips…
Attend a Truck Ops Class at the Orlando Fire Conference…
or
It’s time for some more training at their local Dojo.
God Bless em’. Hopefully a little critisim from the Brotherhood and some quality training and that won’t happen again
Come on people! What ever happened to the basics? I can’t ever recall seeing such a poor excuse for a donkey-kick….John Creech would be turning over in his grave.
DMAN, there’s still time to submit your DK class proposal for FDIC…just sayin’
Seriously though, lack of focus is correct. I work in a smaller dept. without much fire action these days (yep, I’ll admit it this one time), but I’m pretty confident that I wouldn’t try to kick in a door that goes up and down. If it was the probie, he’d have been stopped after the second kick and obligatory laugh.
WTF. Freak show fo sho!!!
To add my two cents; the heavy fire was knocked down and these two or three guys seemed alone with no help in site. they were probably just horsing around and figured they would do something until the truck company came alone to open up. And just like someone said above, the minute the kid with the saw arrives the door falls apart. These two firefighters appeared to do 90 percent of the work and did it outside of the structure so i wouldnt bust their balls about being separated. Especially at a sh*t garage fire were there is no obvious signs of exposure problems and life safety(except their own). I wouldnt call this a gaggle f*ck. I just would have grabbed a forceable entry tool instead of the hook and we probably wouldnt be having this discussion.
LMAO…this is wonderful. Finally we get a video of a donkey kick in action. Woo hoo! About time the DK got recognition.
Anybody notice the PPV fan set up in front of the garage door?
If someone woulda got a meter pulling and a leaf blower it would’ve been the Holy Grail of ves.com videos!
Kicking a garage door?? That’s really going to get it to open up. What happens if it blowing and going on the other side of that door and your foot goes flying through and gets struck? A very long and painful recovery. Always think before you act, That can be a very hard thing to do in our line of work.
Bet you the first guy had on his “The Emotions of Chuck Norris” tee shirt on under his bunkers….
It turns out that the ONE guy who might be “able” (and labeled according) may have actual borrowed the coat!
Oops…I “actually” missed a few keys there.
It probably won’t happen again…until the next time. 🙂
Since when did they cover DK in fire school? I must of missed that day of class. Since all topics have been covered for the most part, I’m just wondering why IC didn’t stop them when they started. Isn’t it the job of the IC to keep his guys from doing such things as trying to DK the garage door when a safety officer isn’t present?
We all make mistakes in this job and learn from them when we make them. This just happens to be on of those mistakes where you learn from it with out actually being the one to make it.
True but what if the IC and the Safety Officer were the ones at the academy teaching the donkey kick in the first place? There goes your logic.
Knowledge can come down through the ranks but it can also start at the bottom and go up. The kickers themselves should have also realized that it was stupid, not only the IC. So 2 major problems.
Still P’Oed about the fan though.
WOW!!! Really! The Training Officer needs to get off his butt, or better yet the CO needs to have a remedial session with his crew. TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN!!!!!
“The donkey kick, Firefighter tested……Chuck norris approved”
I don’t know if this is sad or not but I have seen plenty of these “mistakes” on plenty of fire grounds, I have done some myself so I am at fault as well. The Donkey Kick thing always cracks me up, we have million dollar trucks with tons of tools on it yet the first thing people think to use is their body. I don’t even care if they ever got the saw, someone should have had at least an ax in their hands, god forbid a halogin bar.
What concerned me more than anything was the lack of water pressure in the hoseline and it appeared there was no back up.
The chief thing is a joke but I’m thinking he wasn’t thinking he was on camera.
I’ve gotten caught up in dragging hoselines and carrying tools that I forgot to plug in my SCBA, but once realized it was a lesson quickly burned in my brain to do on a regular basis.
I agree about training not being what it was, we got to try to keep good training alive and teach people why we do things, not just how. The sad part is not many people give a crap on why.
looks like a lot of younger firefighters and officers which leads me to believe this is a volunteer dept. not that makes for excuses….
the really said part is that you know this dept went back to the fire house and patted each other on the back and said yeah we did a great job we are the best fire dept around
this is what you get when you have no man power and a lack of training. this is sad!!! from top to bottom.
the real irony here is the comments. after reading the title it goes back around to it. obvouisley mistakes were made but we have lost the art of MENTORING… i saw someone say that whoever did this would be laughed at over and over again. How are we ever to teach people if we belittle them and they no longer have the respect in us as teachers. my family has given collectivly 46 years to the fire service… The picking and laughing is suppose to go on around the kitchen in the office and off duty. The laughing and the picking has no place in this business on a fire ground, in training or after action reports. i have had people tell me they dont want to train because they are afraid their weakness will be laughed at which majority of these comments are. you have to provide a SAFE, COMFORTABLE, and INFOMRATIVE atmoshpere in which people can learn. if you dont you discourage and if you discourage you might cost someone their life. There is no laughing and picking about that.
Ivy,
I think you’re reading a little too much into the comments. If you really read them, there are some constructive comments, some expressions of disbelief, and a lot of “tongue-in-cheek” humor/long-running jokes.
None of the comments on this post said that someone “would be laughed at over and over”. I however, did mention that there would be an “obligatory laugh”…hardly belittling.
Like several of the comments mentioned, up to the door fiasco, the operation seemed to be alright. The issue here, is that for whatever reason, more than one person decided to try and kick in a large metal door that only goes up and down, NOT in. This is a cognitive skill that should have been learned way before entering the fire service. The fireground isn’t the best place to provide a “Safe, comfortable, and informative” learning atmoshpere, at least until after the fire is out.
Don’t get me wrong, I in no way advocate belittling colleagues, but if you caught a little crap for doing something like this, I bet you’d figure what you did wrong and how to do it right the next time. Sometimes, a little negative reinforcement goes a long way.
Just guessing but I bet the first in company didn’t have a rotary saw… they had to wait for the next due rig. But that’s no reason to let the door kick your butt. Take a breath and collect yourself. We are supposed to be the ones who know our tools and when to use them, and what plan B is when the best tool for the job isn’t available.
Also, instead of pulling back on a dangling overhead hazard, take it out of your way. The fire’s been knocked so you might as well improve your work environment and keep the door from coming down on your brother. And keep your flash hood off your mask lens so you don’t have to look down your nose.
These guys look like they don’t get too much fire… so they aren’t polished and they’re letting the little things handle them instead of the other way around. I know because I’ve been there and it sucks. And it makes training even more important.
IF AT FIRST YOU DONT SUCEED KICK AND KICK AGAIN
No excuse is good enough for not having the basic understanding of forcible entry, fire behavior, building construction, etc. If you don’t know what to do, you have no right being on a rig. PERIOD. Stop with the nonsense on not beign critical of the actions and follishness that takes place in this video. They did everything wrong and they have to own that fact. You call 911, you expect professionals to show up, nto some dog and pony show. The actions of this group insult anyone who makes the effort to be a better fireman. Peer pressure goes a long way. If you suck……you suck and these guys suck. End of story.
Wow, another firefighter bashing site. Isn’t this fun. The only thing worse than a Monday Morning Quarterback is a Day Late Firefighter. So, yeah, there was some goofy stuff going on no doubt, but let’s put some cameras on most of your department’s (and mine!) operations and I’m sure we are gonna see something stupid, from NY to Chicago, L.A., Boston, right on down to Anywhere Township, USA. In fact, YouTube pretty much has already exposed everyone. So all we can do is take an objective look back, try to fix what we are not good at, and do it better the next time. I’m sure this department will do just that. But, the “holier than thou” mentality is not only annoying but gets a little more personal than is necessary. Fortunately, through time, maturity favors those who screw up a bunch themselves and then dog others. Thank goodness for my own mistakes along the way or I would have ended up a know-it-all too!
I think the whole point of watching and making observations of this video is to critique. That is how we get better; by our mistakes and others’. Yeah, the firefighters were working hard – but they could have been working smarter and taking some of the load off while still accomplishing the same thing in an easier manner.
It isn’t necessarily “bashing”, some people might just not know how to write a comment. Others don’t know how to take a comment. Take it and give it with a grain of salt. It isn’t just about the department in the video getting better but making sure that WE do not do the same thing. caller->911->FD->residnce The caller assumes professionals are coming to save them, or their loved ones or their house, etc… Do the job as QUICKLY and SAFELY as possible (the more you know and practice the quicker and safer the job is done). Do the job with passion and knowledge to keep you and your brothers safe. And again, learn from yours and others mistakes.
To be fair…the one firefighter probably couldn’t find a saw because his nomex was pulled almost entirely over his face1
ain’t no excuse at all why one of these two guys couldn’t have had been holding a saw while doing their kicks…..hell they continue to hold the nozzle and pike pole….each still had a free hand to hold the saw…..at least one of them would have been balanced. In fairness to the brothers I think they thought they’d be able to kick out one of the smaller panels and create a 2×2 hole to stick the nozzle into……but I guess they didn’t notice the construction of the door they’d just be wrestling with to the right.
they shoulda called these guys…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwLEwfXYE4k
PFD023, that was awesome!
I can see it now…”Ladder 1, respond for a PD assist…”
at 8min im screaming just go through the wall… I stopped watching at 1030… shame haha… nice find… did they get it open?
the vid stops just after 13mins….and they are still on the same side of the door they started on…..the door was flexing a fair bit…..would have been interesting to see what was actually holding it together.
What town is this so I know never to live there..
um,I know I’m lkate, but… WTF??
um,I know I’m late, but… WTF??
I need to find a way to download this video…
The lack of safety in this video scares me. The job yes is about going in, taking a beating, alittle salty, and having fun. Getting the job done, saving porpety & lifes. But brains and safety need still come into play. Im not going to even talk abpout the guy walking past the fire door without proper pppe, just wondering what he was doing…yes theres fire in there. Like i said who doesnt want to have fun and get dirty, but for a garage fire…..thats well off….whats the point? Whats there to save? The thing is like 20×10….what work can you even get in there? The IC hows about keeping a eye on your guys in a pointless spot instead of kicking around burning rubbish. the guys kicking at the door gave me a good laugh though. kind of wish there was a 3rd then it really would of looked like somehting out of the 3 stooges…gents saws are easier and more effective just happy to see someone though about grabbing one but the lad forgot the gloves…sparks do sting a tad and burn. I just needed to say soemthing because watching the video just really scared me. Stay safe !
Well, I’ve seen my department in many videos over the years, haven’t seen this one before. Where to start….
This is Vancouver Fire Rescue Services in BC, Canada. We are not a small department. With growing population of 2.3 million, 21 halls and over 1000 firefighters in suppression. VFRS has over a 120 years in the business and run roughly 46,000 calls a year. I recently worked at a hall that covers one of the poorest, most drug and crime riddled areas in the Country. Some argue in North America. That two piece hall ran 560 runs for the month of October in 2011. I have been a firefighter for this city for the last 9 years, I have been in a fire or two. Stanley Cup riots ring a bell for anyone? Yes us crazy Canadians riot over a hockey game, well that’s another story for another website.
Like all Fire Departments large and small mine is no different. Sometimes things could have gone better. Mistakes are made, and we must learn from them. I know some names in this video, some are experienced seasoned veterans and others are quite junior and have much to learn. I will be showing this video to members of my crew and we will go over it together and discuss what things were unsafe and touch on anything else required. I do appreciate constructive criticism and I have been guilty of being an armchair quarterback at times myself. But remember, the age of the cell phone video is hear Brothers, and they will immortalize us, in our finest moments and at our worst.
Stay safe out there everyone.
Great website btw.
I think forcible entry techniques will be discussed for our next drill.
Madness? This is SPARTA (kicks)
Really This makes me just wana say hey jerkoff use ur tools dont be one… i mean really guys
Really this video makes me just wana say hey jerkoff use your tools dont be one i mean really and get rid of that tactical tupperwear garbage you call a lid… keep fire in your life!!
I blame everything that went wrong in this video on Drager!! Biggest POS poor excuse for an airpack I’ve ever seen. F Drsger!!