A few months ago we had a post titled No Overhead Obstructions. Well, here’s another nice place to find wires. How about right on the building this time?
Firefighter Zachary Houck from Cherry Hill Engine 52 sent in these photos of an interesting find he recently discovered on an apartment building. These wires could certainly pose a problem if sticks were thrown against the building. The wires are not going to prevent us from getting the job done, but it is one more thing to have to keep in mind.
Wow thats a first i’ve seen that. Doesn’t seem like code should allow this…
THERE IS DEFINITELY SOMETING WRONG WITH THAT! in the dark you will never see that… once again a place where knowing your 1rst due is great… but like its been stated before… you cant know everything about every structure… this building should have note made at the dispatch level to know en-route where those wires could pose a problem… possibly preplan this structure hard.
On the one hand it makes it easier to set up any type of ladder truck!
Looks like these lines are present on a least 2 of the buildings sides and quite possibly a 3rd. Any kind of lower level fire is going effect these lines and cause them to fail and hang. If the hydro provider was slow in responding (at a call) Command would have one more thing to worry about. Perhaps (depending on the type of connectors at the pole) the line could be disconnected there? I would consider that if the power lines were putting my ffs in danger.
Did you notice that the lines get run to the building from the pole, then get run along the side of the building like a buss bar, and are the subsequently feeding multiple meters? I would write this up and attempt to have it remedied. Those wires should be in conduit, well atleast we think so! Also take notice that the window to the left is a room and the one to the right is smaller so its either a bathroom or a kitchen. This is why someone with some knowledge and a head on their shoulders should be on the outside at an operation.
Nice observation Jon. Judging by the layout of this building I would have to assume it is some sort of multiple occupancy housing several apartments. If that is the case then Jon’s observation of a room (maybe bedroom) and quite possibly a kitchen or bathroom. If it is a kitchen or bathroom then you run the risk of having the same situation on all floors, thus having the fire run the pipes. All in all, a very risky situation here no matter what.
The ones without the garages have 3 units, the ones with garages have two units. Look at the electric meters.
What are your policies on “pulling meters”. We used to do it but, since have a no touch policy. Call for Utility. Curious what other departments are doing.
Thanks.
As for it being against code, this building and wires were most likely there before a code was drawn up. We had a job two Christmas’s ago where no ground ladders could be set up on the exposure 2 side do to power lines in which ran right along the side of the house and down the alley. All we were able to do was get a small stick in there and provide another line of egress for the roof crew. Our tower ladder was already tied up and had no way of reaching through the wires or around. Its just one more thing truck guys gotta watch out for.
The way the wire is run against the building (in three parallel wires) may be what is known as open wire construction which was used many years ago but may still exist. However, the overhead service from the pole is twisted “triplex†indicating the service “drop†may have been upgraded or replaced after the original installation. The three parallel wires may be insulated but I would guess not due to the three yellow drapes in Photo 1. This may be insulating shields used by linemen to prevent electrocution. If this were my fire, I would order the electrical utility to cut the service at the pole and drop it. That would signal things are off unless another service enters the building at some other point OR an generator backfeeds to building.
Pulling the meter (I’ll not argue the pros and cons of doing so in a residential building) will do nothing to remove the hazards of this wore set up as the meters are after the wire and before the inside in the circuit.
facetothefloor…
we have a policy to pull meters on SFD but not on anything commercial as pulling the meter would not solve the problem. I agree with Drew that it would not solve the problem here either as it appears in photo 1 that the lines would still be hot even if the meters were pulled. We also utilize a “hot stick” to check if lines are hot, but I really don’t trust it as I have seen where insulated wires were hot but the hot stick didn’t read them that way. The lines are hot until the utility company tells us different. This is where a good relationship with your local utility company is important so that they will get the power shut off quickly for you. Good find by the brother in Cherry Hill. It has been stressed here numerous times but there is nothing like getting out of the recliners and learning your area.
great post! definetly will make a few of us remember to do more than Just “look up”. Also a great reminder why all outside truck seats must have a GOOD light with them there not just for inside guys buried in smoke
Something else to consider… Hopefully never needs to be done but should a brother need to use his personal escape descender from one of those third floor windows those power lines would be the first thing he meets. Again, like Jon mentioned, having someone on the outside to relay info like this to the inside is of utmost importance. Excellent photos.
Pulling the meters here would not help with those wires. They are feeding those wires. Call while enroute or have command call for an emergeny response from the power company to cut service at the pole before the electricity reaches the building. Once the power company has that done you can raise all the ladders you want.
Great find to the contributor… excellent reason to know your first due.
Zach, nice find for an Engine guy. Your dad taught me at the academy (Lindenwold Fire 633). I’m working in FL on L-40 for North Naples Fire Rescue. Upon a working fire at that building I would immediately have FPL cut the service. That way you can position apparatus and throw ladders.
You guys must live next to the yard that keeps guys from the utility company staffed 24/7. In NYC you call Con Ed for something like this, you better hope youre not holding your breath! Calling the Utility company is an idea, but its not going to work when the SHTF. Think about breaching a wall to another window, anything, just dont tell the guy getting cooked to hang on, they are coming to cut the wires! IT MUST BE COMMUNICATED TO THE GUYS INSIDE! THEY MUST KNOW ON THE EXP 3/C SIDE WIRES WILL PREVENT THEIR EGRESS!
Stay Safe
wow!!!!! i sure hope that no one has to bail out of the window above those lines. outside vent guys should be on the radio ASAP with the boss and the inside team.
stay safe
Great pictures! Thanks to Drew for giving it a name. I have some research to do now. Keep up the great work and thanks to everyone who offered comments; I really enjoy the different perspectives. Stay Safe!
Got pretty much the same set up in one of our first dues. Row homes. We have bathrooms with sky lights, The master and the main. An attic ladder standing by at the skylight, just in case s.h.t.f. will get you to the roof. We always have ground ladders in the front and a stick in the rear for egress. It has been posted before but worth saying again, pulling the meter will not shut down the power coming from the pole, it will only stop it at the meter. It will secure the power to the house but you will need to cover the meter box to prevent the electrical hazard. Just a thought, If you have multiple entrapment and need to make the rescue from the side where the wires run, You will piss of the electric company but cutting the taps at the pole will work. Make sure to cut both ends of the line between poles to be sure you secured the power.
The talk about this is great….and if your the OV, make sure you tell the IC that theres nothing showing,light smoke, heavy smoke or smoke under pressure coming from the COCKLOFT VENTS.
Thats those little metal vents above the top floor windows. Sometimes they’ll put decorative covers over them so if you have the OV make a good exterior size up!
Jon,
I agree that communication with the inside crew is vital (with any hazard the outside guy finds – that is why a 360 is done) I was just stating that if you let the utility company know when they are being called in a 0300 that there is a difference in need between a working fire and lines down they might step it up a bit to get to you. It has worked for us but then we are dealing with the same crews over and over and not something the size of ConEd. If it is a situation where the SHTF then your RIT team should have been doing proactive assignments and known about the hazard ahead of time. They should not be sitting on a salvage cover beside the IC doing nothing…but that is another topic. Great discussion.
this buliding is in my first due. I was shocked to see this and never gave a thought to it I will bring this up at the next drill night to the other members