Do you really know your saws? Are you sure your going to choose the right saw for the job? Are you sure you’ve got the right blades on your saw? Have you really every looked close at your blades? Check out these pictures… The blades may look ok…
How many RPM’s does the 950 or 1250 run? Any truckie should know that one, 4800 at the blade. Look at those blades again, 4300 max rpm and for a stationary saw? Firefighter Joseph Touchet from Kissimmee Fire Department sent in these photos. He ended up finding them on the rig during a morning check out. Good catch! I know may people who would have just thought, cool, new blades, and continued the check out.
Im not a truckie. What do the numbers 950 and 1250 refer to? and how is it that they both run 4700 rpm? Just wondering. Be safe.
Sorry about that, when I write for the page I try to remember that not everyone uses the same lingo. Every now and then I slip up.
The 950 & 1250 are referring to the Partner K-950 and Partner K-1250 rotary saws. The 950 has a 94cc, 6.1hp engine and the 1250 has a 119cc, 7.8hp engine. The 1250 has more torque and can handle a larger, more aggressive blade, like the warthog. The other difference is the weight the 16in 950 weighs in at 24.9lbs whereas the 16in 1250 weights in at 32.4lbs. That may not sound like a lot, but trust me you notice the difference! The important thing to remember is choose the right saw for the job!
Also, to be proper I should call them Husqvarna instead of Partner, Husky just bought them out, and the every familiar yellow saw is now being produced in ORANGE!-Jimm-
Flip,
Both saws are designed to rotate at approx 4800+- blade shaft speed. This saw is driven by a belt located in the belt housing that connects the motor to the blade shaft. notice the key difference in the 2 as jimm stated is the horespower which combined give more cutting torque and ability with the larger saw or 1250. As jimm stated the warthog which is a very agressive blade with a large kerf needs to be ran with a 1250 at minimum. Similar to chainsaws rpm adjustments can be made however it is not advisable to go out of factory settings. one such change is through sprocket or pulley diameters. Jeff Ponds
Jimm and Jeff,
After reading your comments, I pondered this concept. My departemtn uses the 950’s and one of the particular saw blades we use are the warthog. In your professional opinion,knowledge, and experience. Is this a sufficent saw for the type of blade?
I was just wondering after reading your comments on each saws’ torque.
My Department tested the Warthog on the 950’s and quickly realized the 950 did not have enough ass. All of our Truck Co’s carry 3 Partner saws plus a chain saw. 2- 950 saws, one with a diamond blade the other with a carbide blade. The 1250 utilizes the WARTHOG..
Where on yur saw would you find out whether its a 950 or 1250? We use a Stihl.
The rpm for the Partner K-950 is approx. 9300 to 9800 unloaded rpm (Engine). The spindle (blade) spins at 4800 rpm.
TS 800 STIHL Cutquik®
DISPLACEMENT
98.5 cc (6.0 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER
5.0 kW (6.7 bhp)
WEIGHT
13.2 kg (28.7 lbs.)
FUEL CAPACITY
1200 cc (40.6 oz.)
ENGINE SPEED
9,000 rpm
MAX SPINDLE SPEED
4,600 rpm
ARBOR SIZE
20 mm
WHEEL SIZE
400 mm (16″)
MAXIMUM DEPTH 177 mm (6″)
TS 700 STIHL Cutquik®
DISPLACEMENT
98.5 cc (6.0 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER
5.0 kW (6.7 bhp)
WEIGHT
11.6 kg (25.6 lbs.)
FUEL CAPACITY
1200 cc (40.6 oz.)
ENGINE SPEED
9,800 rpm
MAX SPINDLE SPEED
5,350 rpm
ARBOR SIZE
20 mm
WHEEL SIZE
350 mm (14″)
MAXIMUM DEPTH
152 mm (5″)
Jeff Ponds
ditto as stated by chuck we run 3 950 combo with diamonds, carbides and a 1250 with a warthog. 950 does work on light weight materials pending you keep the rpms up and not bogging from cutting to fast but to truly work the blade and recieve the benefits of having it you should run a bigger saw such as 1250. Jeff Ponds
Ok, Im getting the idea. We use a k-12. is that for 1250? and whats with the “partner” thing? Sorry Im asking so much about it. I know how to use it, but Ive never been into this much detail about it. I thank you guys for helping me learn something.
Flip,
Partner is the maker of the saw. Partner, Target(saws)and Dimas recently became a component of the husqvarna Corp. K-12 refers to the partner made K-1250 (Saw model K-12 for short). Stihl which is another saw manuf. common to the fire service is independent of the other saw makers which have essentially become one in the same. Most common Chain saws are Stihl (independent), tempest ventmaster, Cutters edge and team (Shark). The last three are huskies or jonsered which essentially are one in the same to my understanding similar to the rotary (concrete saws) saws. Jeff Ponds
Ok I know we are behind on the times but we run an Echo 6700, which in todays model is the 670. After reading this thread I called Echo today and they said that our saw runs between 9000 or so and 10500 rpms. I thought that was a lot, but now after reading what Jeff wrote about unloaded rpms, what do you reckin’ our blade would run at?
Mike,
here is the tech data for the 670.
CSG-670
Super rugged, super efficient 12″ cut-off saw.
• 66.7 cc high performance, 2-stroke engine
• High speed governor maintains engine speed between 9,500 and 10,500 rpm; wheel speed ranges between 4,750 and 5,250 rpm
• Accommodates 20 mm inner
diameter 12″ wheels
• Cutting arm position is reversible
for center or flush cuts
Note: This unit uses 12″ diameter
cutting wheels only.
Plan on approx. half the rpm of the motor for spindle rpm
Blades should be selected for the spindle rpm
Jeff Ponds
Thanks Jeff for that info.
All of this information great. I have one question please don’t laugh. What would be the most recommended blade for general roof cuts. My dept. has one Partner K-1200 and two Echo-670 saws? The K-1200 in set up for masonry and heavy steel. And we currently have diamond blades on the Echo saws. Any information would be helpful Thankyou and be safe.
Currently we have the TS 700 stihl which as a spindle speed of 5300 aprox. rpm. We put a cut off blade, like the one pictured but made by stihl, on our saw. Unaware of the max rpm speed of 4300 of the blade, we used it during a drill where we cut into sheet metal. As soon as the saw was buried into the first cut, the blade literally blew up. It threw pieces of it almost 50 ft way from the cut. Luckly no one was injuried. I guess we learned the hard way.
Joey d,
What is the most prominent building construction in your first due area? Residential (newer or older), commercial? Are you in an area with heavy security features such as bars due to crime rates? If newer residential construction is prominent the 1250 with a warthog or carbide tipped blade would be well suited for this. It seems as though you have your saws set up pretty good I.e. smaller lighter saws for bars and garage doors due to operating in overhead environments. I would probably set up your 1250 for roof work with one of the carbide tipped blades. Setting this saw would give you more power and capability of handling residential as well as commercial wood decked roofs. Jeff Ponds
i have a question concerning the rescue saw my dept uses. we have a partner k950 saw howerver im confused because the blade gaurd says “k12 fd fire rescue” to my understanding the only true k12 is the 1250 saw, is this correct? also on the side of the k950 is gives a max of 5400rpm. does it still operate at 4800rpm at the blade?
Today while at the fire house I ran across a serious safety concern relating to gas powered cut off saws. Any cut off saw manufactured by STIHL is not intended for use with carbide tipped blades for cutting wood. I was taking pictures of our saws and blades to use in a power point presentation about roof operations. While taking the pictures I noticed that our carbide tipped blades were only rated at 5000 RPM and out saws put out 5100 or 5350 RPM depending on the model. We have the STIHL TS400 and TS360. Upon further research to see what blades we needed to get we found that the STIHL website states:
“WARNING! Improper use of any power tool may cause serious or fatal injury. Read, understand and follow carefully the operating and safety instruction in your owner’s manual before using these products.
WARNING! Do not use carbide tipped, wood cutting or circular saw blades. They can cause severe personal injury from reactive forces, blade contact or thrown tips. Do not cut wood of any type!â€
This was extremely surprising since we have been using the saws in this fashion for as long as I or anyone else could remember. I also looked on the Partner (which is now Husqvarna) and ECHO websites. Either’s safety guidelines or operating instructions specifically state not to use carbide tipped blades or anything about cutting wood. They explain the use of abrasive blades only.
I then went on the website of the blade manufacturer. The page for the model blade we had states: “The RESCUE BLADE series is a high quality line of carbide tipped blades for cutting most building materials including roofing and most non-ferrous metals. Designed for heavy-duty demolition and for use by fire departments in fire fighting operations, these blades are excellent for use in pallet breaking and floor removal. Please be aware of SAFETY issues when operating gas powered saw machines.â€
Apparently the saw people and the blade people don’t talk. I emailed the blade company to ask exactly what saws the blades are intended for use for. I also emailed Husqvarna (formerly Partner) to ask if this type blade can be used on their saws. Many fire equipment distributors advertise Partner’s FD edition saws for sale with carbide tipped wood blades.
I know that we are not the only FD out there that has the wrong blades on there saws. I actually saw an article on vententersearch.com about putting stationary saw blades on a cut off saw by accident. That article made me take a closer look today while looking at the saws. This is a perfect example of information sharing among the fire service preventing a possible catastrophe. I will pass along any information I receive from the blade manufacturer and Husqvarna as soon as I get it.
Chris,
You are very correct. Rotary saws are designed to be used with both diamond and abrasive discs for cutting metal and concrete. These saws were developed and have been utilized predominately for the construction industry. Rotary saws were adapted over to the fire service as a need for our operations. The construction industry is still the mainstay for these companies. Tempest is currently the only company that works on making saws specifically suited for the fire service. Many other companies are currently working into our profession as well, such as stihl with the 440 or 044 power heads. The fact remains we have adapted the use to our operations and blades have been and are continually being developed for this purpose. Chainsaws were developed for the tree industry; however, we have converted them to our uses to make the performance of our job safer and easier. Another point to be mentioned here is not partner nor does any other saw manufacturer recommend the use of the wart-hog blade on their saws. In fact when mounting this particular blade there are a few things that must be accomplished first. Chuck, We are currently finishing the final touches for a series of articles concerning saws, blades, selection and use. This series will also deal with maintenance and daily checks. We will be covering most major saw manufacturers prevalent to the fire service. Jeff Ponds
I just received my April edtion of Fire Rescue magazine. And found an ad for a new Rotary saw & blade made just for the fire service. The SuperVC3 made by supervac. It’s rated at 9350 rpm and states the fact it can be used on residential roofs. However now that I’ve read the other post here it appears this maybe one of the only saws made for this use. Yet supervac says they have the supervac 14″ tiger tooth blade made for all saws w/ 1″ arbors. I would now be affraid to put that blade on anything but the VC3 .Their website does not give a lot of info about the rpms of other saws and the use of their blade. Not for nothing but it does look like a real nice saw.Does anybody have one or used one of these saws?
Ok guys hold up a few before we go and pawn all of our gear or throw our saws on the chief’s desk and call them shit. In a few we will have a very in-depth series of articles that will address some of these issues. One such issue is why carbide tipped blades on rotary saws have this stigma based on the first generation blades. We are working as fast as possible to get things out for you guys but it will take a little time. until then stay safe. Jeff Ponds
Some other info I found about toothed blades.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22823
I read a couple of the posts and I got this rotary saws are for concrete and commercial roofing or metals and they shouldn’t be used on residential roofs?
hey how do i put comments up? I would like to know what the preferred length of bar on a chain saw for structures? if you guys could help me out would be helpfull alot
this photo shows low speed discs for a stationary cut off saw, like a chop saw. Approved discs will say “high speed disc” on them and should have an rpm rating of 5600 or so.
The BEST blade out there that I have used is the Black Diamond blade from Cutters Edge. It cuts wood, brick, steel, anything you can throw at it. And the way it is designed it sharpens itself as it cuts so now there is no need for sharpening carbide tips with a file.
I guess it all comes down to what your primary use for your saw is and what type of construction you see the most should be how you decide to outfit your saw. Sheesh, to think I came here looking for some definitive guidance as to what saw blades to use for certain applications, I think I am more confused now. Can anyone explain why you would choose either a 12, 24 or 30 carbide tipped blade?
That happened to my dept. Someone bought the wrong blades and they weren’t discovered until we used them on a call. We needed to use a K-12 saw to cut a gaurd rail to get some brush trucks to a fire in the woods. took 6 blades to make 2 cuts.
Anyone have a link to a good video showing a blade blowing up due to delamination?
Adamlgordon, as i’m sure you know the numbers are in reference to the number of teeth of the saw blade. More Teeth means smaller bites so it tends to be used with a slower movement through harder materials. It also generates more heat if pressed to fast and can clog depending on what you are cutting. Less teeth means larger bites so it’s best utilized cutting softer materials and can be moved faster in these materials. Also clears cutting debris faster and tends to run cooler even if pressed. An easy way to remember this is to think about the difference between a handsaw and a hacksaw blade. Comparitively you wouldn’t use the handsaw to cut lexan like you wouldn’t use a 12-tooth blade to cut lexan. Hope that helps. SA up.
And you would select carbide to increase the longevity of the blade as long as you weren’t cutting materials that were hardened. Kinda comes from what alot of the brothers and sisters above were saying about matching your blades to what you expect in your first due.(sorry for not answering completely the first time.)
Anybody using the Husky K-760 for FE ops? If so do you think it’s enough saw for the myriad of FE tasks one could encounter on the fire ground?