Lt. Scott Egan from Orange County Engine 50 sent us this interesting structure. You are going to have to check out the supplemental page for a full description of this one. -Jimm-
14 thoughts on “Structure…Vessel…Whatever!”
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Why the hell are we putting stupid shit on this website.
Perhaps due to the fact that this really does have a potential impact on us and our crews. If Lt Egan can run across something like this, then we all can. Think of it like this Frank, how would you attack this should it light off due to the piecemeal A/C and electrical job? Add into it that even tho it was “reported” that the boat is uninhabited, say its not. Anybody who has worked in a poor area of town for more than one shift will agree with me I think when I say that some people will live in anything. Thats a palace compared to some “homes” I’ve seen. I think the question of how to work this potential fire scene and the debate to follow is something we should all pay attention to… make a poor decision in a situation like that and it may cost you your crew and/or your life. The only stupid shit I see is the person who ignores a unique learning opportunity or discussion tool. Is that not what this website is for?
Thanks EngCo10 Chauffer, that’s exactly why I posted it, I’m not sure I would have “assumed†this thing could be occupied as a structure during the middle of the night. We all know we have seen people do some real stupid stuff out there. Has anyone ever responded to an “abandoned†car fire in the middle of the night and looked for a body in the car? Why? Was it because someone could be living in there? That’s why this boat is on here. This “structure†just seemed unique enough to share with everyone.
Frank, I would love to hear any suggestions for posts. Please feel free to email me (jimm@VentEnterSearch.com) with any questions, material, pictures, or any other related content. I hope that each one of our readers understand that we look forward to EVERYONES suggestions and input. That’s why we are here; EVERYTHING can be a learning opportunity. –Jimm-
Well put EngCo10… I learn from this site everytime I log on. I can just hear some of the comments being made as the guys peel off the rig at “this” fire…Stay safe everyone!
I agree EngCo10. You really never know what people will do, or live in. Growing up, I had a neighbor who had the front section, including the cockpit, of a DC10 on his property. Fully wired for power, couches, seats..etc. It was an awesome “fort” for a youngster. Now tell me, if that thing caught fire, would there be someone inside? I would imagine this “ship” in the front yard is occupied during a good part of the day by someone. Would it not behoove us to assume that it is and to learn something from it? When you stop learning on this job, it’s time to move on to another vocation.
Great pictures. Thanks to Lt. Egan for provoking thought on a topic most of us would never think about. It’s great to learn from the experiences of others.
When I look at this photo the first things that come to my mind are the following.
ï± Someone is welding inside this thing.
ï± There’s light haz-mat being stored inside and out.
ï± This is a hell of an exposure.
ï± Under fire conditions will those stanchions continue to support the boat? And are they anchored properly.
ï± Will accessing this with ground ladders put unsafe lateral forces on the supports.
Just some thoughts from a safety officer type.
You might be a redneck if…Are there rednecks in Central Florida?
Definatly a target hazard for fire and confined space.
Just thinking about making entry, I only see two options- neither of them look very good to me. We could grab the K12 and cut an entry hole in the side at ground level or we could throw a ground ladder up the side and go from the deck down. My concerns there are that the structural integrity is unknown… the boat is help up by the stanchions but are they stable and even more importantly are they going to hold for any length of time with a fire load on the inside? This tempers my first thought of cutting a hole… we’d have to skip as many ribs in the keel as possible (thats assuming that this boat has been built like that… I dont have much maritime knowledge) to keep the structural supports as complete as possible. My concern with the ground ladder is that again we’ll have to trust the staunchions… if we have multiple crews hauling ass up a ladder, will the boat stay upright? No way to know…
So what do you guys think? Scenario is, respond box alarm, arrive on location to find smoke showing from the cockpit of the boat. Cars in the driveway, no one outside. 1st due companies, how do y’all go in? Or do you go in at all?
First, thank you everyone for paticipating on this webpage. And a big Thanks to its organizers.
Now, as far as this scenario goes. AJ brought up some of the concerns I had when I found this while out doing a street by street tour of my first due. My very next thought was ‘where is my camera?’
Now, if I was responding to the box alarm for this (I love using that term)…
First I would request the Coast Guard… and if it was raining and starting to flood badly I know where to send ‘two’ of every animal..(not fire ants kill them all)
Seriously now.. My first thought is stabilization. Call in additional resources, Trucks and Heavys. Class “C” wrecker with a rotating boom. Power company to dead the pole in front and drop the wires to open up room for the wrecker. Depending on fire load and stablization needs, possibly use wire or cloth slings and the wrecker to lift/stablize in place.
Secure and remove the AC and vents, maybe they would open up a picture of what is inside and or provide a way out.
If immediate rescue was needed, “risk allot to save a life.” Ladder it, but also try to provide a counter weight. Maybe ladder it from both sides and one is for Rescue and one is for fire attack/protection for the rescue crew. This street leaves no room for a truck to set up, but across the street is a large comercial parking lot behind a fence. Maybe have them set up and go well above the scene for recon and or a high anchor.
Does anyone carry anything that could be used for stabilization for this on a front run truck? USAR teams could construct a brace im sure, but what page in the FOG covers marine crafts?
My lesson learned here is, drive your first due… ALL OF YOUR FIRST DUE… This was a dead end street in the very far end of our first due. A street without hydrants. A street that I would never drive down unless a call came out on it. This ‘find’ is a perfect example why you should drive your first due, ALL of it and see what you discover. I found quite a few other items, not worthy of group discussion, but to sumarize I have some other projects I am working on to pre-plan incidents in those areas. Water shortage issues, drafting locations, etc…
Stay safe and keep the rubber side down.
First is the size up. next, is anyone inside?, what chemicals might be stored inside. Light hazmat, but you will need to consider them.Best access may be from the rear center via ground ladder. If the fire is in the light stage, you may be able to control it with a Dry chem, atleast long enough to make a quick search. Remember, we need to think about our safety first.Do the search if you can do it safely, then get the heck off that monster.I would use an elevated waterway to attack this one. I think a squrt with the electric nozzle would be best. Foam my be the way to go. Don’t forget to pull a line to protect the house, I’m sure you will need it if this thing takes off. You will need to set up a collapes zone as well. I would also be looking to replace the code enforcement officer. How did this get past them? This is a great site guys, Thanks for the opportunity to LEARN from others.Be safe!
My reasoning behind the question about entry was not for so much for extinguishment but more for a primary search. The premise that we run on here is that until we know for sure that there is no one inside, we go in and search. Abandoned buildings, boats, cars, etc… the only time we dont is if we cant safely (resonably) make entry or there is no chance for anyone to still be alive. I personally wouldnt want to wage an interior attack with it up on stilts like that…
We dont carry anything on our trucks that could really do much for stabilization… the closest thing that I can think of would be to utilize some of our paratech struts but we’d have to use several trucks worth to get them tall enough to impact the keel in any worthwhile way. We’ve only got 2 rescue pumpers (mine & one 25-35min away on the north side of town) and the heavy rescue with them so I’m going with a no-go there. 52Capt, you sir bring up a good point that I hadnt really thought about… extinguishers. It is so rare for us to use an extinguisher for anything other than an electrical fire that I hadnt really thought about taking one up to facilitate a search. I was thinking about humping a handline up there.
I dont think my dept could get an elevated stream on it… most of our trucks are too big to get back there much less put the stick up. My first in truck is a 104′ platform and my second in is a 109′ stick. We’d have to call for one of the 75′ sticks from the other side of town to have any chance. I know of only one squirt about four cities over… and thats the only one I’ve ever seen. They aren’t that common round here. Depts just run 75′ quints for their jack-of-all-trades.
Whadda ya know… it like looking in my own “backyard.” My department is in northern Michigan and on the water. Early Spring and Late Fall there are a ton of these sitting around, with owners fixing and preparing them for storage or the water. What you can’t see are all the interior hazards present: The tight and unpredictible interior configuration, the exposed wiring – either the ships or extension cords and lighting, stored sails, or rigging including cables, stays and spreader bars, and the trip hazards, …etc… Pre incident planning and SOG’s are imperative on dealing with these “structures.” When they go, they go. And just one more thought – at least he started this project outdoors. There are a number of project boat builders that build these (maybe slightly smaller) in their attached garages, pole barns, and in one case, their walk out basement. Stay safe.
I agree with all of the above. Another point to consider is multiple hidden spaces that could provide enough room and time for backdraft and early flashover potential. Consider also the use of wood treatment materials. A dry chem would most definately be a great idea, but consider the size of the fire and containment of heat. Not a lot of protection behind an extinguisher. As far as the topic for entery goes, I agree that a Tower Ladder/ 75’/109′ ladder would not have room to set up, but consider using the house behind, unless involved in fire, for a quick and stable platform for initial topside size up. Also consider using the roof top to strech a line up and start initial attack. Entry to the lower deck looks like it would be made through the rear of the boat which would make for ideal initial attack.
How about ventilation of the “structure”?