The boys from Houston Firehouse 19 showing us they’ll do whatever it takes. Make sure you click on “comments” below to read our thoughts about this job. -Jeff-Â
This video shown courtesy of our friends from TheBravestOnline.com
24 thoughts on “Vertical Vent…Whatever It Takes!”
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This is not a posting to discuss the different ventilation techniques but will discuss a few concepts and considerations pertaining to this scenario. Based on the video, companies arrived on what is commonly referred to as a shotgun with heavy smoke issuing from all sides of the structure. These older style conventional built structures usually have 1X4 or 1×6 decking on the roof areas. **Do not let this construction characteristic mislead you. Many times the 1x’s are replaced with common plywood or OSB boards when renovating or installing new roofs.** During roof operations it is always essential that we thoroughly size up as well as utilize proper sounding techniques to safely operate. It is also advisable to scan the roof area with thermal imagers to see heat signatures which will allow us to better locate the fire area for crews below as well as determine involvement and extent of the attic space. Due to the pine wood utilized in this style of construction heavy and rapid fire spread is prevalent.
This accelerated fire condition is due to the sap seeping from the wood, coupled with the high wood content, age and decay of the structure. These structures usually exude turpentine (a thin volatile essential oil, C10H16, obtained by steam distillation or other means from the wood or exudates of certain pine trees and used as a paint thinner, solvent, and medicinally as a liniment.) This is commonly called oil of turpentine, spirit of turpentine. Often times you can see this tar seeping from the joints and pores of the wood. Common characteristics of these structures include heavy and rapid fire spread, heavy smoke often times being a dense brown as evidenced by this footage. Due to the heavy wood and chemical content heavy and extreme heat is common especially if retrofitted with newer style windows and insulation practices allowing for this intense build up. Be cautious of flashover situations! Renovation of these homes is very common in many cities throughout America with the revitalization of downtown areas.
When viewing this video make note of the conditions and intensity of the smoke. They have heavy pushing smoke near the windows most likely pushing under pressure from the eave area. In sections of the video you can also see smoke seeping from joints in the wood at the window levels which is an indicator of heavy pressurized smoke concentrations on the interior of the structure. Make note of the conditions on the porch area during the beginning of the video. As members of Ladder 19 make progress on the vent you notice fire begins to show and the sudden release of pressurized smoke on the inside and attic areas of the structure.
This video takes place in 2:36 seconds. In 2:36 seconds look at the change in smoke conditions before and after ventilation is complete. Note how quickly conditions change in the area and the increase in visibility of the area on the porch. Smoke conditions of this magnitude are a major contributor for firemen deaths. **** It is essential when operating in these smoke conditions adequate ventilation must be established.******. By eliminating or reducing these conditions we increase victim survival, accelerate our search capabilities, increase visibility, reduce chances of backdraft, reduce flashover potential, increase speed of attack for interior crews, increase overall interior safety and decrease fire spread just to name a few.
Members of this company utilized a rotary saw for venting this structure. Consider using chainsaws when dealing with wood structures (conventional or light weight). Chainsaw may be preferred due to reduction in weight, speed in cutting, reduction in saw inertia, and length of the saw usually make this a safer as well as faster operation. It is important to note that either saw (with the proper blade) will work great on this type of roof. In upcoming months we will be posting articles that will address specific ventilation concepts, tactics, benefits and safety. Remember adequate and effective ventilation practices are essential to safer firefighting operations as well as victim survival.
Vent Early Vent Often! Lives depend on it. Stay safe! –Jeff Ponds-
Great video. I will be using this video (among others) to try to make a change to our department’s SOG’s. Currently, we have a statement that reads not to gain roof access on lightweight truss constructed roofs. Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you standing on when on the second floor of a ordinary residential or the second floor of a garden apartment? Exactly.
If I’m doing inside truck ops or on the hoseline, I’m extremely greatful for the vertical vent!! Now imagine yourself as an occupant or victim inside a structure like that! I’m not sure a PPV at the front door would have the same effect.
If you do a good size-up, determine conditions, and get the vent early, it is a win-win situation. I like the idea of using a TIC to determine fire location and roof conditions. This tactic, like many others, requires three things: training, training and training.
Hopefully, we can make changes for the better and get back to aggressive, not passive, fire fighting.
Gents,
I hold no shame in admitting that I am wiping away the tears from my eyes as I finish watching the Houston Fire Dept’s video. These tears are of pure, truckie pride – god I truly love this profession!
The elements of truck work are relatively simple, but essential. If we don’t vent appropriately; Conditions can deteriorate rather expeditiously. Therefore, we must convey a considerable amount of gallantry during certain situations. I for one, can honestly mentioned that the necessity for vertical ventilation is undoubtedly the most misconstrued operation we have to contend with amongst our peers. Why?
There are many debatable and rationale reasons; however, One must consider this – building construction, fire conditions, time, and beneficial factors. These all apply when performing any tactical consideration within our fire suppression scheme. Nevertheless, we tend error on the side of safety; Admirable thinking, but aren’t neglecting the observations our ambiguous perceptions.
Structural building components are synonymous in many ways. If the roof is too parlous to be on for an essential and beneficial endeavor – then why are we allowing interior crews to work under them? The laws and nature of Physics are the same – not matter how we look at it! So, what do we do as Incident commanders? Think responsible, yet logical before we participate in a game, as coaches, that possess a championship caliber group of individuals who are trained to persevere and produce beneficial, victorious results.
Any decision that we make holds merit towards our dangerous profession. Therefore, let’s remain cognizant of fortitude of aggression and allow what needs to get done become accomplished through positive tactical consideration and planning; rather than a homily of beliefs that derives from…Personal Opinions.
Be safe out there.
I have a few questions to raise. Please bear with me since I am an Engine guy who keeps up on Truck work. The video is good to point out the case for vertical ventilation, however my questions come up on the tactical work of the truck work on this job.
I would expect my Truck to be split into two teams, inside and outside. The inside to force entry, search, and open up. The outside team would consist of a FF and driver. The FF would take a ladder and halligan, this would enable access to the roof, force secondary means of egress, and be able to take windows. The driver would on this job take a saw and ladder.
The questions that I have is why didn’t they take the windows first? Since life is primary, taking windows would provide immediate improvement of conditions inside. Was the side door forced? This would provide a second way in or out. Why were two FF’s in no gear, just watching? There was a ladder on the ground next to them. Why not throw the second ladder, force the side door, take the windows?
After the outside FF (OVM) takes the windows (probably all the windows in this fire), he can then assist the Driver going to the roof. The second due Truck on the working fire can be split also, the outside team assisting with the roof, and the inside assist in pulling ceiling and secondary search.
My intentions are not to say Houston did a bad job, vertical vent did need to be done on this job. Having said that, what about the rest of the ‘trade?’
If I am off base, I’ll just go back to engine work!
With that amount of nasty, pushing smoke, i would automatically write off any survivability in the house. It seems the purpose of the vertical vent was to improve interior firefighting conditions. This was definately pre hostile fire event, and I wouldnt dream of sending anyone in there until the fuel had been removed. Had there been someone alive in the house, the vent would have helped them too.
i would imagine opening all the windows wouldnt help much, and only supply the seat with more fresh air. there was a great post on here about Tactical Ventilation between a chief in England and Some NY truck guys. Great back and forth banter.
Of course i am just learning as well, so any input would be great
Todd C.
First I am glad to see you like to keep up with Truck Company operations, truck functions are different than your normal assignment however it is essential that everyone knows what to anticipate by certain tactics such as venting and its effect on fire growth and control. Great post and you have some very valid questions and here are a few of my thoughts. I don’t mean to insult you or anyone with basic firefighting techniques however it is essential that we must review them in order to explain some of my views so please bear with me….
As you stated most truck companies do indeed split into two teams which are commonly the inside and outside teams. As for your tool choices there are many variations that are seen in the fire service. Some agencies specify the exact tools that are required while others leave it to the companies to determine what is best suited for this particular scene based on the members size-up, after-all, what good are metal cutting blades on rotary saws when we are operating on a common stick built structure with no bars? Most commonly you will find interior truck members with a set of irons for gaining entry, thermal imagers and a hook for checking overhead as well as overhaul procedures. Most outside team members as you stated will have the same as interior crews in addition to ladders and saws for the many outside tasks that need accomplished. Let’s take a moment to contemplate the concepts and difference in the two ventilation tactics.
Let’s take Vertical ventilation first. Vertical venting as we know is opening the structure at the highest point above the fire in order to remove heat, smoke, and fire gases and replace them with cooler, cleaner air. By doing this we allow the high temperatures as well as the by-products of combustion to take advantage of the natural laws of heat flow and channel them out through the chimney we just created. Food for thought, do chimneys have 90 degree bends in them? Utilizing this tactic we have released these products out of the structure into the open air not eliminating only certain quantities such as in Horizontal Venting techniques. Horizontal Venting as you stated is a great and essential technique for venting the** fire room** as well as Vent Enter Search operations and as secondary means of egress. However, by utilizing horizontal venting to the extreme we increase the rate at which fire spreads. How? Going back to our basics of firefighting we learned of the flammable range of gases as well as the to rich or to lean concepts. Back-drafts are a condition in which we have extreme heat and lack oxygen which causes enrichment of the fuels within the confined area, which create enriched environments that do not readily ignite. When we horizontally vent a window in this situation we complete the needed components to allow for the flammable range to be achieved with the end result of rapid and explosive combustion due to introduction of Oxygen and achieving this flammable range. When we use horizontal venting we do release some heat and gases however, we have large explosive pockets of high heat and gases in the upper atmosphere that is left to contend with. Take a moment to look up at your ceiling and then look at your lower window sill. This area is what is potentially left with these highly ignitable mixtures of gas and heat which can increase flashover situations or rapid fire spreading. The closer we get to the fire room and the more heated and turbulent the smoke the less effective horizontal venting is and the lower to the floor it will be. When we horizontally ventilate to the extreme often times we make more suitable conditions for rapid fire spread as well as flashover due to keeping enough oxygen coming in and fueling the fire which is now within its flammable range. Sometimes this spread is so rapid that we can not keep pace with this rapid spread and we systematically burn the structure down or lose way more than intended. Now our search time may also have decreased drastically due to the rapid horizontal spread of fire that is still in a confined area. By opening the roof we have now given the fire a chance to release through the path of least resistance (vent Opening) and we limit the horizontal fire spread due to the natural heat flow up and out of our vent. The Key to vertical venting is it releases the heat and gases at all levels of the structure and not just the lower areas such as with horizontal venting. Horizontal venting is a technique used to open the fire room which with proper and rapid attack will push the fire out of the window. This is why many agencies that operate frequently with vertical ventilation do not remove windows with out a particular necessity such as VES, victim removal operations and secondary means of egress.
Now let’s take a moment to view these two concepts in relation to vertical ventilation views. VES operations are essential life saving tactics which likely also increases the effectiveness of vertical venting due to natural cross ventilation throughout the structure if used correctly and with moderation. However we must remember excessive window removal will decrease the effectiveness of vertical venting. There are numerous saves attributed to VES operations and VES should always be utilized as one of our tactics in specific areas such as bedrooms. Many members of the fire service have placed horizontal ventilation as equally effective as vertical venting and remove all windows solely for the purpose of smoke removal and fire, often times this is not our best choice due to increase in fire spread and the previously mentioned flashover potential which can be reduced drastically or eliminated by appropriate Vertical techniques. Secondary means of egress is essential for firefighter safety if things take a drastic turn for the worse. Is it not our job to eliminate this potential from happening? By removing all windows for this purpose is it possible that we are creating a serious situation (flashover or rapid fire spread) and preparing for when it happens. In this I mean we are performing a tactic that potentially could create the need for rapid egress due to a rapidly deteriorating situation that we have created. It is my contention we should focus on eliminating the need for these emergency egresses by sound, effective tactics.
Now let’s put this all together in a final conclusion. In using Vertical ventilation we benefit in many ways such as reduction of heat, reduction of flashover, eliminating back-draft, reducing fire spread and taking advantage of its natural paths for which we have created, increasing firefighter safety by reduction of all of these and increasing visibility which would decrease the potential of us getting lost. We increase speed of fire attack by reducing heat and smoke to allow for faster advances, and decrease burns due to fire as well as steam conversion. We make for more efficient and rapid searches due to increases in visibility. We increase victim survival by reducing heat, reducing smoke and gases, reducing steam from water application. We also reduce property loss by reducing this fire spread or eliminating it running the building when kept within in confined spaces. This video takes place in 2 minutes 36 seconds. With efficient well trained companies this is a very realistic, obtainable expectation on these types of structures. Given two guys just to vent every window in this house suitable for a means of egress and effective vent how long will this operation take?????? My guess is pretty close to the same when done appropriately and systematically which does not figure in for someone dropping in to search, boards, bars, or hurricane windows which bring in a whole new critical issue for horizontal vent practices. Horizontal venting does not create as effective or as many benefits for **us** or the operations as a whole. Notice the us…. In us I refer to safety of victims as well as the fireman who often times are taken for granted. Given all of the benefits to vertical venting it should always be a major consideration for tactical choices. In the words of one of the most well respected fire service leaders and instructors the Late Tom Brennan and I quote “Horizontal ventilation should always be a secondary consideration to vertical ventingâ€. Vertical venting is not a tactic that can be accomplished by all agencies as there are many factors that make it impossible but the same holds true for horizontal venting. Agencies with long response times, single company operations for extended time frames, operate with low manning or absent of truck functions are not conducive to this type of operation for obvious reasons. It seems that a trend we are experiencing is to make every effort towards safety which often times leads to critical, basic, yet effective fire ground tactics that are left delayed, unfinished and even eliminated. By operating in this fashion sometimes we find we create more dangerous environments in the name of safety. Vertical ventilation is one such tactic. There are many who eliminate this tactic do to concerns of safety yet they will continue to mount aggressive interior operations under the same roof in which they deemed unsafe which once again increases our dangers do to the heat, smoke, flashover ect. In this case we also risk larger numbers of personnel operating inside these confined ovens. An interesting note at this point is in garden apartment responses. We continue to aggressively search the second floor of a building with a fire located on the first floor. We search and send multiple companies in these situations daily on the same construction but eliminate vertical venting when dictated due to safety concerns of the construction, yet both the floor and roof are constructed in the same manner with the same components. With that being said I think I have rambled enough for now, hope this is of some help to you and thank you once again for taking time to visit and share your views at VentEnterSearch.com-Stay Safe- Jeff Ponds
Jeff, Excellent reply, very informative. I would like to comment on a statement made in the previous post. Please let me preface this by saying that this is not ment to be a slam or personal attack. Just something to think about. Using the statement “automatically write off any survivability in the house” may not be the best thing for todays fire service. Think about this, we (the fire service as a whole) work in a time of fewer fires, more attrition, less experience at all levels, risk managment departments that want to dictate fire ground procedure and the everlooming fear of litigation. Giving people who don’t have the heart or desire that we do for this profession the ammunition that there maybe a reason to not make entry into any given stucture could be detrimental in the long run. I would hate to wake up one morning to an SOP that states “No interior firefighting”. As ridicules as this may sound those type of SOP’s do exist across the country. The answer… consider all potential fire victims viable until they are removed from the structure and pronounced dead or the structure is TRULY fully involved and no access can be safely made into it. Thanks. C
Hasn’t history shown us a definite trend is victim survivability with that amount of nasty smoke present in a structure. I am in total agreeance that everyone should be pulled out ASAP regardless dead or alive, but its also imprortant to recognize when the probablility of Hostile Fire event is high, the probability of Victim survival goes way down, and putting 2 FF’s in a preflashover structure for someone, dead or alive, has questionable tactical foundation. I dont ever want to see “no interior firefighting” go into effect, it would destroy the Fire dept. Hopefully the continued agressiveness of the larger metro dept’s will keep the “administratively happy” smaller dept’s motivated to continue a rapid size up and agressive interior attack.
Risk vs Benefit is the biggest factor here. There are many scenes that you can pull up to and ask your self “is anyone alive in there?” then you should ask ” am i comfortable sending men in to pull them out?” right? because our #1 job is to make sure that everyone goes home to thier families. it doesnt mean that the victims will not be pulled out, but in that particular scenario, and others, the fuel definately needed to be removed prior to sending anyone into that structure for a primary search or interior attack.
God I love this site!!! All these posts are very informative. Im on an Engine Co. that has to do truck functions at any given time. As a lover of Truck Work I learn more every time I log on to this site. Stay safe everyone!!!
Jeff,
Excellent reply! I totally understand what your points are. I do not intend to debate the proper tactics at Houston’s fire, I was not there and I have a nice chair, A/C and a cold one right here.
I agree on alot of your points. Taking windows will not provide total relief as vertical ventilation. By taking some windows on the opposite side of the fire from where the engine is stretching, it will lift the smoke a few feet. This allows the engine to find the fire faster, the interior truck team to search faster by sight instead a touch, and if there are victims inside fresh air. Of course this may feed the fire, but typically it will not provide a ‘blow torch effect.’ The engine should be ready for advancement, which in the video a line is already stretched while the truck was on the roof. By having the engine ready, and small fire advancement would be knocked down and the engine can push faster.
As far as how long it takes, when I was assigned to a truck years ago, taking windows did not take long at all. In this video I would expect to take the windows on the back side in 30 to 45 secs, including getting a ladder and irons. To get the roof cut, the Houston truckies did it very quickly. As I would take the windows, my driver would be getting his pack and another ladder and saw. By the time he got the ladder up, I would be done taking the windows. The video is approx 2min 30 sec, and doesn’t include the time to get the equip and get on the roof. Taking that into account, the time frame would be close to same, maybe 20 to 30 sec more. Even though it’s 30 secs more, by taking the windows and providing 2 to 3 ft more of fresh air on the floor, it’s excellent for the victims. With FL’s low staffing, I beleive you can save more victims by venting than by searching.
We would then begin vertical vent. Vertical vent did need to be done as stated in the previous post. You are absolutely right it helps confine the fire and is the best way to vent sometimes. (I’ll let you right the article on vertical vent, you are a better writer than I am) As the Late Tom Brennan states, vertical vent is better than horizontal vent. You must look at FDNY building construction vs. ours in FL. The have multiple dwellings with common cocklofts. Vertical vent helps them as you described. If you also understand FDNY procedures, they rarely vertical vent a single family dwelling due to numerous reasons, which I’m sure you are aware of.
You make excellent references to relate this to your individuals departments, as staffing, responses times, and SOP’s. I wish more departments believed in some form of venting instead of parking the truck to block traffic. As an engine guy, I sure love two sounds made by truckies, windows breaking and the saw on the roof!
Having said that, I feel there the Houston guys did an excellent job, I just wanted to raise some questions, it seems to have worked. I look foward to the articles that VentEnterSearch.com is working on.
Thanks and stay safe!
Ok, now that we have achieved the vertical vent let’s get inside and find someone. Wait that could be a dangerous act that might place firefighters at RISK. Is this not what our job is a calculated risk, hell why train if we are not going to take risk? I have and we do fight fire from the safety of the outside. Will this save your loved ones, NO will it save your brother firefighter the one that new he would have to take a risk someday? NO it will not, our job much like the men and women who have fought for this country and any other country that their Commander has told them we will defend. Has had to take some risk now I’m not saying we should have a death wish. But this is why we train so that we can reduce the RISK and place the odds on our side.
Search – how do we know that the building whatever size or type is vacant, empty or that no one is home? We won’t or don’t until we get inside and search!!! If you lack the skills, knowledge and most of all training to do this then take as many classes as you can. I know you have the equipment to do it hell you work for the fire service; even COPS carry scba’s and extinguishers. So now we must decide who is going to take on this risky task. It doesn’t matter what vehicle he came on and we know what I’m talking about. It just needs to be a dedicated spot or seat with the right tools for the job (bigger hammer isn’t the answer). If your department has guidelines for search then you follow them. If your training provides you with knowledge greater than what your guidelines tell you, which would you, rely on? I’m not telling you to disobey an order by any means. But if my training has taught me to size up smoke and fire conditions within the building. Then why would you follow the guidelines knowing that it is not the quickest path to possible victims?
This is the start of the plan we have decided to search based on our size-up. If we can’t decide which direction to travel then we must use our guidelines. Don’t add to the confusion in stead make an impact to turn things in your favor. Remember we are not always going to use the front door or any other door for that matter. But people are creatures of habit I quit using the windows to get in and out of my house many moons ago. So remember our training has taught us to size-up the building. The hose team is going in through the door we hope from the unburned side. They might find someone that attempted to make the door that same door they use day in and day out.
But what about the other means to gain entry yes I am talking about VES. Just the other day at the firehouse we were talking or as in most cases trying to solve all of the departments problems. It was being discussed as to why sometimes VES is done in areas other than bedrooms. Remember we should be doing VES for bedroom areas that more than likely are cut off from the doors that people use on a daily bases. Yes this applies to Office buildings or any other type of building or room that would not allow access to the door.
This is where I’m sure we will not agree do we work in pairs or by ourselves? Yes I know there are standards and regulations that require us to work in pairs for safety. Last time I looked fire is a dynamic thing ever changing based on its surroundings. It does not follow some standard or regulation. If we cannot adapt then we will not overcome, so maybe we should have just stayed home or better yet find another job! Your department’s manpower, number of units including mutual aid ones should dictate your search procedures. We must think of our job as that of a pit crew we only have seconds to clear the building if we want to make a difference. Remember the 4-minute clock started when the fire started. Each fire fighter must cover as much area as possible. So why do we always see the search train one guy holding on the foot of the other?
We are not looking for someone’s engagement ring we are looking for bodies and better yet we are hoping to find that someone that is still alive.
Ok so I have vented long enough and yes I may not have covered the whole search thing from front to back. But I guess this will give me something else to write about. I always give Jeff a hard time to for being so long winded and then look what I have done. I apologize for my lack of writing, grammar and spelling. Hell I think that’s why I joined the fire service thinking I would not have to write, boy was I wrong! Just wish I had paid as much attention then as I do now when taking classes that may save my life or someone else.
I see you guys enjoyed Houston 19’s ventilation video. Our staff recently had the chance to ride along with Station 19 who protects the historic 5th ward. Check out the documentary video if you get a chance. http://www.thebravestonline.com/InsideOUT.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15VxYzzjpKM (video) Is a great video of some of the things discussed here. In the beginning of the video you can see a FF venting a window. Fire is soon seen coming out of that same window. Also notice vertical ventilation had been done on side A first floor. Heavy smoke can be seen venting from the door and windows. These guys vented to get to the seat of the fire. However, the seat of the fire found them. Incorrect vertical ventilation nearly injured or killed this crew. The building didn’t make out so well either. I think this video helps explain some of Jeff’s statement. Stay Safe!!!
sorry!!! correction, i ment to say horizontal ventilation. (i guess my credibility just went out the window. Too bad all the hot gases can’t follow behind.)
whats with the firefighters on the ground not wearing full ppe?
Hey guys, I was sent to this web site recently and enjoyed reading the responses. Maybe I can clarify a few things about how I view truck work. I’ve been doing it for a few decades and still manage to learn something new each day. The house in the video was an above average size wood frame for my territory with a high interior ceiling (10 ft). We entered immediately behind the first engine crew after being given the task of primary search. Within a few feet of the front door we encountered tremendous heat and dense brown smoke that I judged to be possible flashover conditions. I did not need my imager to tell me that fire had advanced into the attic and the room height was going to inhibit pulling the ceiling from below. I motioned for my truck crew to go to the roof and asked the interior crew to try to hold the fire from a safe interior position. We utilize PPV ventilation and therefore the thought of breaking windows never entered my mind. Both rear windows of the house already had fire showing upon arrival. On the issue of splitting my crew … My crew never splits when I judge the structure or situation to be as dangerous as this one. I believe in having them all close by, for better or worse. One firefighter and myself went up immediately with the other following shortly with more tools. My Engineer/Operator stays on the ground with other E/O’s in case we need more ladders etc… The roof was judged to be sound, no sag or deformity before deciding to continue. The visibility was near zero therefore we kept close as we worked. As for the saw… The K-12 is always our tool of choice because of the multi layers of roofing that we encounter on these older houses. Sometimes we have found as much as five layers of composition over wood. The guys did a great job of opening a large 4 X 5 hole and we got off the roof as quick as the job was done. One of the Engine crew has slight burns on his face near his hood while trying to hold the fire and search the front rooms. No victims were found. One side note. The building occupant, an elderly woman, claimed to have money in the room of origin during overhaul. Indeed she did. We found her life savings of 30,000 cash (all $100.00 bills) burnt on the edges but salvagable in the back room. She was making arrangements to purchase the house that she had been renting for a number of years. I would never have endagered any of my guys needlessly, but I do believe that we will always be here on a mission of saving lives and also sometimes property. Everything is a calculated risk. Me just have to make good educated calculations. Therefore, in order to be good truck crews – we train, and train, and train.
Thanks
do you always let your crew go to a working job without full ppe? I’m sure they were issued,why not wear it?
hey bob, would you like to say on the web what department you work for and if you do, can you guarantee me that you and your ff’s wear ppe on every fire ( including EMS personnel ) you can be safe without “gearing up” everytime, especially if you are just support. every house fire in houston gets between 6-8 ems personnel on scene on the first alarm. no sense in standing there with your hands in your pockets. been working in this area for a while and never had anyone hurt on scene without ppe. thanks.
Van Postell
FF / Paramedic
HFD Station 19 C-shift
killer video! I’m stoked for just watchin’ it
Excellent video and commentary. With regards to opening all of the windows to vent the structure, that would have simply burned the structure down and more than likely killed all that may have been inside. Just reference the South Carolina furniture store and the numerous other videos showing the structure burning to the ground after one guy runs around busting out all of the windows. The fire quickly goes from a room and content fairly safe fire to fully involved extremely dangerous fire. Ventilation has to be controlled and orchestrated with fire attack. The guys without bunker gear, I would guess to be drivers and ambulance guys. It is an unfortunate site to see guys not bunking up. Keep up the excellent web site. I was just introduced to it.
Well after wathin this video it only showed me what not to do and also that I would be needing atleast 3 ALS units on scene to take care of personnel,, the personnel setting up the ladders and personnel on the roof.. I know we do our job no matter what it takes but that looked like an abandone home there is personnel walking around w/no protective gear and taking chances and also the person incharge is also walking w/ nothin on just the radion on his hands..I think this video shows that we need to be more aware of our SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY..
I think that the engine company pushing in (and any trapped folks inside) appreciated the 19 Truck guys ‘digging in’ and getting it done on the roof. Conditions visible in the video may or may not be what were showing on arrival and all the engine, inside truck and/or rescue team(s) knows is that they’re either getting some relief or not.
For a variety of reasons, we often find ourselves in less than perfect or textbook situations. Once we’re there, we need to come up with as many ways as we can to create as efficient and safe outcome as possible. Maybe (probably) there was a greater overall risk in the roof team not getting it done than for them to stay up, suck it up and open it up. Tough roofs can be and are often dangerous for the roof team, but not getting them open can be more dangerous for everyone operating underneath them. Great work, 19.
Be safe.
Well said 4 roof, well said! -jimm-
I see quite a few people saying that this was an unsurvivable fire — why don’t we give the victims the benefit to at least try. Check out this 805 F street fire in downtown Sacramento. Many departments would have considered this fire a loser and never gone in — but we pulled 2 civilians out of this fire alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HybIzeBpUi0